Liquor treatment help required

[Aleman]

I have had a water analysis done on my house Tap water at a Laboratory . The report makes the following suggestions to get it spot on for Bitters

AMS @ 0.25 pts/brl (87 ml/hl) to be calculated with repsect to the volume to be treated & added to the liqour tank. All brewing liquor should be treated including any sparge or breakdown liquor. ( AMS is a blended acid suitable for most brewing requirements. Used to adjust the alkalinity).

I don't understand what pts/brl means or the ml/hl in brackets...I am thick when it comes to maths
[quote:3oc9nifm]Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum) @ 2oz/brl (35g/hl) to be calculated with respect to the brewlength & mixed in with grist

Again how much do I add for 10 kgs of Grist

Calcium Chloride Flake @ 1.5 oz/brl (26g/h) to be calculated with respect to the brewlength & mixed in with grist

Again how much do I add for 10 kgs of Grist
My Brewery consists of 2 plastic 30 litre Liquor Tanks. I fill both and heat one for the mash. I generally use 23 Litres of liquor for the Mash. When empty I then fill the 2 Liquor Tanks with 25 Litres each for sparging purpose and I collect about 48 - 50 litres in the copper.

I generally make strong to middle range Bitters at 1042 - 1052 SG

I don't understand how to calculate what I need for my small quantities[/quote:3oc9nifm]
First off a Brewers Barrel (BL or BBL) is 36 gallons . . . or ~163 litres and a Hectolitre (hl) is 100L . . . . this should make things a lot simpler :)

So taking the AMS (or CRS for those of us buying from Brupaks ) first, they are saying add 87ml to every 100L of liquor and treat it all. . . as you don't have sufficient volume to hold all of the liquor at one go, you can treat it as you go along by adding (0.87*23) 20ml AMS/CRS to the mash liquor. Then add (0.87*25) 21.75ml (or 22ml) in each of your Liquor tanks. . . . Sorted

First I have to say that I am at odds with Murphys recommendations for water treatment WRT quantities of salts to be added . . . however we will go with what's presented here.

Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum) @ 35g/hl to be calculated with respect to the brewlength . . . Calcium Chloride Flake @ 26g/h

Note the emphasis I have applied here, According to Murphys you add your salts according to the final volume of wort you get in the fermenter, and in your case from 48-50L of wort pre boil I would expect you to get about 45L in the Fermenter. (It does seem logical to calculate based on brewlength as the water is evaporated in the boil and the salts remain so they become more concentrated . . . I do disagree though, and it probably doesn't make to much difference in the long run).

So assuming 45L brew length

Calcium sulphate 45 * ( 35 / 100 ) Or ( 45 * 0.35 ) = 15.75g Added to the grist
Calcium chloride 45 * ( 26 / 100 ) Or ( 45 * 0.26 ) = 11.7g Added to the grist

Now I was making 80+L of a hoppy bitter beer this weekend, and I used 12.5g calcium sulphate and 8g of calcium chloride in my 35L of mash liquor (and the same in the boiler) Murphys recommendations for you are more than I use in double the volume . . . Ok so my mash pH was 5.5 . . . but I'm getting closer . . . and I have no idea if they take into account the levels of ions already in your liquor . . . but I do know that they aim on the rather high side for calcium (IMO) trying to get around the 300ppm mark . . . whereas I aim for around 120ppm in the mash and somewhat less in the boiler, knowing I will carry some over from the sparge.

Anyway I hope this helps

 

[Doobury]

Hi Aleman

I am a chemist and run a lab myself. I don't know what you requested when you submitted a sample of your water to the lab for testing (ha! ha! ), but I think they might have assumed you were a commercial brewer. Let me have your test report and I will comment if I can. (free of charge as a new mate)
Personally, I believe water is water as long as it's clean. Burton, for example is famous for beer and this is down to its water that comes from the ground largely untreated. Kent has water that will produce beer like Sh.t "n" Scream and there are some loverly soft water Yorkshire brews that come from millstone grit. All tap water in the UK is what is called potable quality, but this will vary from area to area

 

[Aleman]

Hi Doobury,

Thanks for the offer, I was in fact responding to another member who had asked for help in interpreting what Murphy's had said to treat his water. . . . IN fact what Murphys generally recommend is to 'Burtonise' the water adding very high levels of Gypsum . . . which may or may not work for the beer style being brewed. . . I think that trying to emulate any local water profile is a complete waste of time, and it is much more important to understand the principles of what we are trying to achieve.

 

[Aleman]

Following up from the original post

I have 2 full bottles of CRS and 500 Gms of Gypsum...so don't think I need to buy the AMS or Gypsum from Murphy's

I don't have the Flakes though...so depending on cost at Murphy's for a 25 Kg bag...for the small quantities I use it might be as easy buying them from a Home Brew Supplier instead

Don't buy Calcium Chloride in huge quantities!! it absorbs water so much so that it turns to liquid. Stick to buying a 100g tub from the LHBS . . . and make sure you keep it in the dry.

So taking the AMS (or CRS for those of us buying from Brupaks ) first, they are saying add 87ml to every 100L of liquor and treat it all. . . as you don't have sufficient volume to hold all of the liquor at one go, you can treat it as you go along by adding (0.87*23) 20ml AMS/CRS to the mash liquor. Then add (0.87*25) 21.75ml (or 22ml) in each of your Liquor tanks. . . . Sorted

I am a bit worried about using all this Acid.. :? ..If you remember you gave me some figures last year when the Water Board gave me my Water Analysis and I added 16 Ml of CRS to each 25 Litres. However, everyone who tasted my bitters said it left them with a tingling sensation on their tongue ..so I presumed it was too much acid..and so I reduced the CRS to 13 Ml to each 25 Litres and it got rid of the tingling on your tongue. I am now very worried that if I put even more CRS the taste will come back again!!! What do you think?

I think the power of suggestion is very effective . It would be an interesting experiment with a largish group of brewers. Say take two 1L samples of water, and add 0.87ml of CRS to one of them. Then use a triangle taste test to get the brewers to pick the one sample that is different. . . . I would bet that you wouldn't get a statistical difference. . . . . Now if it was Lactic Acid OTOH, that I have detected in as low as 5ml in 50L

If it helps....I only added 7 Mgs of Gypsum to the grist and nothing else.... :?

Do you think that by adding the Calcium Chloride and more Gyspum (as per your calculations) that it might sort the Acid tingling tongue issue?

I don't think that was the issue anyway . . . it could be a high CO2 level . . . leading to CO2 bite . . .

PS Given that I have also started making Lagers...I am wondering about the Treatment I should use for these..Any Idea? According to a chart I have from Murphy's ..I should add no Gypsum or Chloride. However I should use the same CRS as Bitters but reduce the Calcium to 120 -140 as opposed to that added to Bitter at 180 -220 (how do I do this?)

You can either reduce the calcium by boiling or by adding RO water . . . Personally I wouldn't bother . . . You certainly need to reduce the alkalinity though. Incidentally there is a spreadsheet that does the Murphy water calculations for you which can be downloaded from UK Homebrew

While I am on...I have a recipe which states for copper hops use Mittlefruh & an IBU of 25, worked out I need 190 grammes. If it’s just for bittering, can I use something with a higher alpha number & less quantity to get the same effect?

I’ve read somewhere that the full boil just gives the bitterness & the flavouring is the last 10 minutes for which I’m using Saaz, will this work?

It depends on the hops . . . You could use something like Pacific Hallertau or Hallertau Aroma which are high alpha hops grown in NZ, but I would be very wary of doing so. I brewed a Pilsner last year using Pacific Gem for bittering and Czech Saaz / NZ Saaz for flavour / aroma and the flavour in the beer is not that of a good bohemian pilsner . . . its a nice beer though.

You could try something like Northern Brewer at about 10% alpha to replace some of those Hallertau at 2.1% . . . but I wouldn't want to replace much more than a half . . . preferably no more than 1/3.

 

[hopin mad]

try this web site, if you look on your water suppliers web site you should be able to find the water analysis for your area, put the information onto the web page and it will automaticly work out what you need to do to make your water suitable for brewing, it can be adjusted for different typs of beer


http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

 

[Vossy1]

try this web site, if you look on your water suppliers web site you should be able to find the water analysis for your area

Unfortunately that's not really true h m, as Aleman has already alluded to. Water authorites may switch supply (frequently) but they ony test periodically, which can be really problematic.
I've fallen foul of this with minerally 'sharp' beers. A lot of water authorities don't supply alkalinity fihures either (mine included). Grahams general purpose water profile is very useful though, and those figures have been known for a very long time.