Late Malt Addition help

[AndyBobandy]

This a question from a new brewer. Up until now I have only used recipe kits I've ordered online but I wanted to expand and brew my own recipe.

I started with a clone of a black ale which turned out fine but doesn't have alot of body or 'mouthfeel'
I read that adding a liquid malt extract will help increase the body of the beer but I can't find anything else that backs that up, or helps me figure out how it fits into my recipe other than reducing the amount of bittering hops.
Does anyone have experience in doing all grain brew with added malt for body??

 

[Sadfield]

I think that info may have originated from kit brewing, perhaps. If one was to replace sugar in a kit for malt extract.

In all grain brewing, as you have control over the mash process, this gives you ways to add body to the beer, through altering the recipe or mash conditions. The easiest is to mash at a higher temperature. This creates sugars (dextrins) that yeast can't consume, the wort becomes less fermentable and the remaining sugar add body to the beer.

Post up your recipe and mash temperature, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of feedback on improvements to make.

 

[AndyBobandy]

Thanks, that's already really helpful. Especially the graph! So just so the thought is out of my head, keeping my recipe the same but adding an amount of malt at the end of the boil will NOT produce similar results to raising the temperature to produce dextrins?
I'll pop the recipe up as soon as I can.

 

[AndyBobandy]

I think that info may have originated from kit brewing, perhaps. If one was to replace sugar in a kit for malt extract.

In all grain brewing, as you have control over the mash process, this gives you ways to add body to the beer, through altering the recipe or mash conditions. The easiest is to mash at a higher temperature. This creates sugars (dextrins) that yeast can't consume, the wort becomes less fermentable and the remaining sugar add body to the beer.
View attachment 18972

Post up your recipe and mash temperature, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of feedback on improvements to make.

Thanks, that's already really helpful. Especially the graph! So just so the thought is out of my head, keeping my recipe the same but adding an amount of malt at the end of the boil will NOT produce similar results to raising the temperature to produce dextrins?
I'll pop the recipe up as soon as I can

 

[terrym]

If you decide to go down the additional malt extract route I would add dried malt extract not add liquid malt. Fom experience I am increasingly of the opinion that some LME* is the cause of homebrew 'twang'. Dried malt appears to be fine.
* And by that I mean any Muntons kits or LME, and/or what may be old or cheap or dark LME.

 

[Sadfield]

Adding extract will also significantly change the abv, flavour and bitterness of the final beer, and depending on how fermentable the extract is, may not add much extra body.

 

[AndyBobandy]

Adding extract will also significantly change the abv, flavour and bitterness of the final beer, and depending on how fermentable the extract is, may not add much extra body.

I'm not really sure of the best way to write my recipe on here but here goes.
Grains:
Breiss midnight wheat
Caramunich 3
Maris otter

Hops:
Columbus 60mins
Chinook 20mins
Centennial 20mins
Centennial 5 mins

Dry hops:
Citra 7 days
Centennial 7 days

Yeast: safale US-05

Strike temp 69 oc
Mash 67oc

Boil 60mins

I think that's everything???
Feel free to point out any glaring floors in the recipe, or unnecessary steps/ingredients.
It really is my first time trying it for myself.

 

[AndyBobandy]

If you decide to go down the additional malt extract route I would add dried malt extract not add liquid malt. Fom experience I am increasingly of the opinion that some LME* is the cause of homebrew 'twang'. Dried malt appears to be fine.
* And by that I mean any Muntons kits or LME, and/or what may be old or cheap or dark LME.

Ok cool, thanks. So, if I tried dry malt addition how would I need to adjust my recipe or figure out the quantity needed?
I think thats what I'm mainly confused about, I'm happy to try these different techniques but without knowing how to apply the additions I would probably waste alot of time and ingredients

 

[AndyBobandy]

I'm not really sure of the best way to write my recipe on here but here goes.
Grains:
Breiss midnight wheat
Caramunich 3
Maris otter

Hops:
Columbus 60mins
Chinook 20mins
Centennial 20mins
Centennial 5 mins

Dry hops:
Citra 7 days
Centennial 7 days

Yeast: safale US-05

Strike temp 69 oc
Mash 67oc

Boil 60mins

I think that's everything???
Feel free to point out any glaring floors in the recipe, or unnecessary steps/ingredients.
It really is my first time trying it for myself.

Oh and Mash out 76oc

 

[Slid]

The layout of your recipe looks fine, but for most informative feedback, we really need to know the quantities of each ingredient?

 

[AndyBobandy]

The layout of your recipe looks fine, but for most informative feedback, we really need to know the quantities of each ingredient?

Okay, sorry. It's all new to me lol.

15ltr water
9ltr yeild

Grains:
196g Breiss midnight wheat
226g Caramunich 3
2.74kg Maris otter

Hops:
6.89g Columbus 60mins
13.95g Chinook 20mins
6.89g Centennial 5mins
21.45g Centennial 5 mins

Dry hops:
Citra 13.95g 7 days
Centennial 13.95g 7 days

Yeast: safale US-05 6g
55g brewers sugar

Strike temp 69 oc
Mash 67oc
Mashout 76oc

Boil 60mins

 

[Slid]

That looks like plenty of malt to get a pretty big beer and plenty of hops too!
It may just be that you need more practice to start getting more of a feel for things like:

• Doughing in the grains properly, to drive out as much air as possible from between the grains
• Stirring the mash a bit half way through
• Keeping the temperatures of the mash fairly stable (try putting the pot in the oven @ 50C
• Doing some form of sparge (as slowly as you can) to increase the extraction of sugars

All these (and more!) will help, but learning it all is a gradual process for most of us.

 

[AndyBobandy]

That looks like plenty of malt to get a pretty big beer and plenty of hops too!
It may just be that you need more practice to start getting more of a feel for things like:

• Doughing in the grains properly, to drive out as much air as possible from between the grains
• Stirring the mash a bit half way through
• Keeping the temperatures of the mash fairly stable (try putting the pot in the oven @ 50C
• Doing some form of sparge (as slowly as you can) to increase the extraction of sugars

All these (and more!) will help, but learning it all is a gradual process for most of us.

Nice one, thanks alot.
Maybe it's just lack of practice, I have a mash kettle so I can keep a nice consistent temperature throughout. Maybe I'll try fly sparging one day??
I guess there's no quick fix to get the beer I'm hoping for, just practice and tweeks to the recipe!

 

[Sadfield]

Looking at that recipe and your mash temperature of 67°c, I wouldn't expect a thin beer (although taste is subjective). You could increase the amount of caramunich by 25-50% and/or raise the mash temp by 1 or 2 degrees. One thing I would definitely suggest to a beginner (or anyone else) is to check the accuracy of your thermometer to be sure your mash was at 67°c. Here's a guide of how to.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/how-to-calibrate-a-thermometer

 

[AndyBobandy]

Looking at that recipe and your mash temperature of 67°c, I wouldn't expect a thin beer (although taste is subjective). You could increase the amount of caramunich by 25-50% and/or raise the mash temp by 1 or 2 degrees. One thing I would definitely suggest to a beginner (or anyone else) is to check the accuracy of your thermometer to be sure your mash was at 67°c. Here's a guide of how to.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/how-to-calibrate-a-thermometer

Thanks for the tip, I wasn't really sure where to start adjusting the recipe so I'll try increasing the Caramunich first. Also my thermometer isnt digital so perhaps that's a good investment for the future, especially if a 1 or 2 degree miss measure makes a noticeable difference.

 

[GerritT]

This a question from a new brewer. Up until now I have only used recipe kits I've ordered online but I wanted to expand and brew my own recipe.

I started with a clone of a black ale which turned out fine but doesn't have alot of body or 'mouthfeel'
I read that adding a liquid malt extract will help increase the body of the beer but I can't find anything else that backs that up, or helps me figure out how it fits into my recipe other than reducing the amount of bittering hops.
Does anyone have experience in doing all grain brew with added malt for body??

You're on the path to better beer! Have you already checked some of our threads about books, by any chance?

 

[AndyBobandy]

You're on the path to better beer! Have you already checked some of our threads about books, by any chance?

Good advice. I'll have a look through and see what people are talking about, thanks.