Lager cooling....

[W0nderW0man]

So I made a bit of a last minutes decision yesterday without checking the weather forecast as I didn't think it would get so warm so quickly now and ordered some stuff for lager, including fine liquid yeast (which they said should be used within 6 months)...

so what do i do now? without a brew fridge, is there any effective way of keeping the lager cool during fermentation? would something like this help with ice sheets?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INSULATED...264451?hash=item1a11d42103:g:IV8AAOSwHnFV6uNz

I heard of those insulation bags but they are super expensive.

 

[Fil]

a waterbath and daily replacement of a 4pint milk bottle or 2 with one/s from the freezer full of ice.. drape a sleeping bag on top too

a 100l storage container and a couple of bricks to stand the bucket on will allow you to sit the bucket in a substantial volume of water without it floating about :)

 

[Hops_and_Dreams]

If you can spare £50, this works really well. Currently have a brew sitting at 14c, with just a couple of bottles of ice.

http://www.geterbrewed.com/cool-brewing-bag/

 

[Leon103]

Getting it beteen 10-15c to ferment will be pretty easy with ice water and a trug. Lagering it may cause you more issues

 

[Covrich]

Never made a true lager before but my pseduo ones you can lager in the bottles (in the fridge) and it works a treat.. whether you can get away with that with a true strain I don't know..

 

[W0nderW0man]

Getting it beteen 10-15c to ferment will be pretty easy with ice water and a trug. Lagering it may cause you more issues

Okay, I think I will give it a go. I think the night time temps are around 8 degrees here (as per weatherman), so do you then take the ice bottles out at night and just leave them water in the trug? I guess if you stick fresh ice bottles in every morning they will be defrosted by then anyway.

Do you cover it with anything or wrap insulation around the VF?

I might be lucky with conditioning it as I only brew about 12 l, so hopefully I can make some space in our spare fridge.

 

[Notlaw]

You can get a second hand fridge off Gumtree for £25, if its a bit tatty or yellowing, it doesn't matter... as long is it works!

 

[Fil]

Yes cover, keep the variances of day and night off the brew as much as possible with insulation, an old sleeping bag is ideal, tread it down flat around the waterbath to minimise draughts.
forget an airlock as the insulation will muffle its sound and make it redundant anyway. cover any airlock hole with tape.

as to how many ice bottles to add daily to maintain the cold temp is down to trial n error, start with one and if its insufficient add another etc... if x bottles is too much chill but x-1 too little, half fill the xth bottle

 

[Leon103]

Okay, I think I will give it a go. I think the night time temps are around 8 degrees here (as per weatherman), so do you then take the ice bottles out at night and just leave them water in the trug? I guess if you stick fresh ice bottles in every morning they will be defrosted by then anyway.

Do you cover it with anything or wrap insulation around the VF?

I might be lucky with conditioning it as I only brew about 12 l, so hopefully I can make some space in our spare fridge.

I would leave them in 24 hours a day. Wraping the trug will keep the temperature steady.

 

[W0nderW0man]

You can get a second hand fridge off Gumtree for �£25, if its a bit tatty or yellowing, it doesn't matter... as long is it works!

I've been thinking about this but maybe I'm missing something but doesn't a fridge have a temperature of 5-6 deg C? I don't think most of them go much warmer, do they? So, how can I achieve the right temperature range of 10-12° (or sometimes a tad more) in a fridge?

 

[Doglaner]

Hello,

It comes down to cost again, unfortunately.

You need a fridge, a small bar heater such as one that is used for a greenhouse, and then a temperature controller that controls the power t either the fridge or the bar heater.

The controller then switches on the heater if it is too cold, or the fridge if it is too warm, thus maintaining the temperature. I won't go into the details here, however there are a couple of controllers that will do the job. Have a look at the Inkbird threads for one which doesn't need any wiring up, or if you're confident about doing electrics (which terrify me) then there is an STC100 (or similar) which is a bit cheaper, if more fiddly. Both can be found online.

Total cost is about £80, although if you've got a birthday coming up, this can be spread over other people......

It's nice to have some warm weather though, even if it plays havoc with fermenting / conditioning. Maybe a bottle-conditioning fridge next....?

Dog.

 

[Covrich]

I've been thinking about this but maybe I'm missing something but doesn't a fridge have a temperature of 5-6 deg C? I don't think most of them go much warmer, do they? So, how can I achieve the right temperature range of 10-12° (or sometimes a tad more) in a fridge?

I haven't done this yet but I think inkbird thingy is what you need..

That and a fridge and your away..

is that correct?

Then when you're done fermenting you can lager it up and get it lovely and crisp.

 

[Notlaw]

I've been thinking about this but maybe I'm missing something but doesn't a fridge have a temperature of 5-6 deg C? I don't think most of them go much warmer, do they? So, how can I achieve the right temperature range of 10-12° (or sometimes a tad more) in a fridge?

In most fridges, if you turn the thermostat knob thing down to the lowest setting, it's barely colder that room temperature, so I reckon you could find a setting that kept at around 10°C no problem.

 

[Fil]

the full monty brewfridge involves
1) a fridge
2) a controller
3) a heater
4) if not fitted in the fridge already a fan.

you can elect to buy an off the shelf controler like an inkbird and simply plug the fridge and heater into that.
however more folk have used stc1000 type controllers which require a box and wirring up which isnt much more complex than wiring a plug up. And there are more guides on the subject than you could ever read watch

if brewing lagers i would consider not simply plugging in the fridge to a controller but bypassing the fridges thermostat completely.
if used with a fridge thermostat fitted then you will not be able to chill below the minimum temp the fridge will chill to 4-5C, bypassing the fridge thermostat will allow you to lager at 0C

A fan is crucial for efficiency, the air is the method by which heat is exchanged so keeping a steady flow of air around inside the fridge will keep it moving over the cold and heat radiators and the bucket walls for maximum effect.
Check out commercial and top end domestic fridges they invariably have fans built in a pc case fan and redundant phone charger or other dc supply is simple cheap and more than upto the job

personally the brewfridge was the best brewing investment i made.

 

[W0nderW0man]

What are the differences between the inkbirds? like the ITC 308S and 306T

edit: I think the 306 is just heating, right? I would want the 308 (green one)?

 

[Fil]

yes you want the 308s green one,

 

[JapanBrew]

I think there is another one that has programs. Is that still the 308?

 

[Kman]

I've got a cheap tatty old fridge with heater put in using the inkbird to control, can't recommend highly enough

 

[Fil]

I think there is another one that has programs. Is that still the 308?

pop over to the inkbird site for specs.
the 310T has timer functions. so x temp for y days, and z temp for w days..

http://www.ink-bird.com/product/detail/p/ITC-310T_Programmable_Outlet_Thermostat/id/15

the 308 has heating and cooling control and a single target

http://www.ink-bird.com/product/detail/p/ITC-308_Outlet_Thermostat_Temperature_Controller/id/12

the 306 is a heating only 2 cycle controller
http://www.ink-bird.com/product/detail/p/ITC-306T_Outlet_Thermostat_w__Dual_Time_Cycle/id/13

there are different probe lengths and styles as well as different socket plug arrangements..

imho avoid the long probe unless you want to fit a thermowell or thermopocket to your FV, a shortish 50mm ss probe sits nicely behind a insulation pad taped to a FV side which is afaik the best place according to collective wisdom and my experience.. (measure close to change input to avoid overshoots) :thumb:

 

[Greenhorn]

80 quid sounds a bit steep.

30 for an inkbird, although he was doing a deal if you agree to give it an amazon review.

There are so many under counter fridges on ebay that you just need to spend a little time looking. It took me about a week of looking every day to fund one locally which was about to end with no bids. I got a perfectly good fridge for 99p.

Another tenner for a bar heater and you're good to go.

32 quid mine cost and it's the best thing. So cheap and so useful that a lack of space aside, I can't think why any brewer would be without at least one.