Kits- "Twang" theory

[Sandimas]

Tastes to me like it is every kit or extract brew,

Is that just LME, or DME as well? I don't think I've tasted it in DME/spraymalt brews and tend to stick with them nowadays.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I think it's an oxidation thing that affects LME proportionally to how old it is.

The twang that we all speak of tastes like sherry to me.

 

[Saisonator]

Is that just LME, or DME as well? I don't think I've tasted it in DME/spraymalt brews and tend to stick with them nowadays.

Yes I think just LME, I drank some DME starter last week and there was no twang.

 

[simon12]

I am surprised noone has blamed it on Brexit or Donald Trump yet. They are always the most likely suspects.

 

[simon12]

Yes I think just LME, I drank some DME starter last week and there was no twang.

In that case it points to either LME goes stale and DME doesn't or its down to the metal tins LME comes in. Unless someone has another idea.

 

[Sadfield]

Is that just LME, or DME as well? I don't think I've tasted it in DME/spraymalt brews and tend to stick with them nowadays.

For a few years now, I've been attending monthly meetings of two homebrew clubs, and as a result taste around 15-20 homebrewed beers each month, from brewers of differing abilities, some using kits, LME, DME and all grain. I find that there is taste that is there in all but all grain, a flavour that identifies extract, be it Kit, LME, DME. A dull, stale, possibly slightly metallic flavour. That to me is Twang. Sometimes subtle, other times I think it is accentuated by other faults such as acetaldehyde or sherry like oxidised flavours, which maybe what some brewers associate as twang. Not sure why one would be better than the other as the difference between DME and LME production is that, DME is LME that has been centrifuged. As with all brewing ingredients, poor storage conditions won't help.

Interestingly, one club when it started around 2 years ago was predominantly kit and extract brewers, but now at at a point where nearly everyone has made the switch to AG, except for one member who would love to but can't due to time and other commitments. The reason that they made the change isn't because they want the brewday to last longer.:wink:

 

[simon12]

For a few years now, I've been attending monthly meetings of two homebrew clubs, and as a result taste around 15-20 homebrewed beers each month, from brewers of differing abilities, some using kits, LME, DME and all grain. I find that there is taste that is there in all but all grain, a flavour that identifies extract, be it Kit, LME, DME. A dull, stale, possibly slightly metallic flavour. That to me is Twang. Sometimes subtle, other times I think it is accentuated by other faults such as acetaldehyde or sherry like oxidised flavours, which maybe what some brewers associate as twang. Not sure why one would be better than the other as the difference between DME and LME production is that, DME is LME that has been centrifuged. As with all brewing ingredients, poor storage conditions won't help.

Interestingly, one club when it started around 2 years ago was predominantly kit and extract brewers, but now at at a point where nearly everyone has made the switch to AG, except for one member who would love to but can't due to time and other commitments. The reason that they made the change isn't because they want the brewday to last longer.:wink:

Do you think there is much/any/significant difference between LME & DME?

 

[Sadfield]

I have only used either to brew with once, both after i'd done 40 or so AG brews, and didn't find one better than the other. Both made perfectly acceptable beers, although clearly extract brews. I couldn't pick based on other brews I've drank, it does appear a very random issue when twang becomes very obvious.

I appears that in this thread that there is more trust in DME, yet i've read on US sites that LME makes better extract beers, and the maltmiller fresh wort kits sounded like they were a step ahead in quality.

 

[MyQul]

I am surprised noone has blamed it on Brexit or Donald Trump yet. They are always the most likely suspects.

@Gunge told me it's caused by global warming

 

[Sadfield]

This article makes some good points and one here puts the twang blame on stale LME.

 

[terrym]

I am surprised noone has blamed it on Brexit or Donald Trump yet. They are always the most likely suspects.

What about the North Koreans?

 

[dad_of_jon]

I think there should be a poll on what causes it :lol:

and just like the brexit vote we should agree (or not) with the winning explanation!

 

[GhostShip]

Sounds like it might be time for companies producing kits to do some serious tests and then put appropriate use by dates on the tins.

I won’t hold my breath though.

 

[pms67]

This article makes some good points and one here puts the twang blame on stale LME.

+1 for me 👍

 

[Nicks90]

It can't be the use of boiling water, as all the kits (1 and 2 can) are fully pasteurised once canned. It's because they have to comply with food manufacturing regulations.
So adding a second lot of boiling water to something that has already experienced very high temps and pressure won't make any difference.
I would suggest the twang is more to do with yeast and temperature. My first wherry had a twang, my second - brewed with a fresh sf04 yeast (very long date on the pack) and kept at a perfect 20c for 2 weeks had no evidence of any twang.
From now on, I won't use a kit yeast and only use decent yeasts that have a good life left on the packet.

 

[Sadfield]

I would suggest the twang is more to do with yeast and temperature.

I think there is more to it than that, as even the most crudely executed AG will be twangless despite a myriad of off-flavours.



Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[pms67]

It can't be the use of boiling water, as all the kits (1 and 2 can) are fully pasteurised once canned. It's because they have to comply with food manufacturing regulations.
So adding a second lot of boiling water to something that has already experienced very high temps and pressure won't make any difference.
I would suggest the twang is more to do with yeast and temperature. My first wherry had a twang, my second - brewed with a fresh sf04 yeast (very long date on the pack) and kept at a perfect 20c for 2 weeks had no evidence of any twang.
From now on, I won't use a kit yeast and only use decent yeasts that have a good life left on the packet.

I don’t think it’s the boiling water either,I think it’s the actual LME, I think that’s the taste only hidden by a large dryhop,

 

[foxbat]

Do extract brewers get the twang or is this a unique thing to kits?

 

[Covrich]

I am another one firmly in the LME staling camp.. I do feel DME is less susceptible to it though (not suggesting it doesn't )...

Completely non scientific here but When I boil DME or LME it has a much more artificial smell than boiling a wort made with grain..

It is difficult I think as a HB community we should to a degree promote HB of all kinds of variety and levels because it gives HB accessibility to everyone, Not everyone has space for large pots boilers gas burners or big windows I also believe there are kits out there which do make a decent pint.. That being said a ready meal isn't going to be as nice as something you prepare fresh.

 

[Saisonator]

Instant tea or coffee never tastes as good as the real thing, why should beer be any different?