King Kegs - Are They Really That Bad?

[BIGJIM72]

In response to this topic- I have a top tap KK that has been in use for the best part of 20 years.Yes I have replaced the lid,yes I have replaced the rubber seals around the brass valve & it has worked perfectly.Yes it was a bugger to use at first without the internet & forums like this to guide me I had to rely on trial & error.But when I worked it out :
On the basis of this I bought 2 more,one of which had to be replaced.I actually spoke to the KK manufacturer at one point. Check your cap-if it doesn't have an embossed W symbol then it is not an original manufacturers part & this may be the cause of some issues. Ritchies & Youngs often supply KKs with the barrel direct from manufacturer but cut costs by supplying cheap lids/taps/floats (this info was given by the manufacturer) (See Old Stout's disaster thread)

Ritchies replaced my KK barrel free of charge when there was an issue with splitting.

Yes a duff barrel or duff cap gets out every now & then.I would also suggest that the build quality has gone down between the first & last KK I bought. But I would also venture the suggestion that a big part of the problems on this thread are down to human error.

There's enough info on this forum and on JBK so that you can use these barrels correctly.Yes there is a learning curve-especially with floats,o rings et al. Drum taps are little ******* to take apart,clean & put back together. They have their quirks but IMHO are worthwhile.

I'll bet my boots when you had problems learning to drive you didn't give up. So why quit on a £50 bit of kit because you haven't quite got the hang of it.

Please don't misunderstand me-this comment is not a personal attack directed towards anyone & is not meant to offend. As stated I have had to have a keg replaced-so some comments here are justified (splitting,burrs on the top). I'm no rocket scientist but I can get a decent pint out of all 3 of my kegs. So,just saying if I can do it maybe it's not the fault of the keg.....

Want a decent head on KK beers? Lose the drum tap & get a brewgas/dalex KK tap. End of.

 

[Markus]

Some good info BIGJIM.

But I feel that what you are defending there is not the product I have sitting next door. You had to replace both the (unofficial) lid and the tap to get the product to perform at a satisactory level. I don't think that's accceptable frankly. To pay 50 pound plus for half of a functioning product?

My lid definitely does not have a "W" on it. I've inspected every inch of that sucker for one reason or another. Maybe I should contact the manafacturer too.

Appreciate the feedback tho man. Good to know you can make these things work for you.

 

[Steveicky]

I have owned king kegs for many years and can only report frustration. Getting a good seal and getting the floats to work was always a challenge. Over tightening the lids seems to cause most of the problems as the seals distort and on one of my kegs the lid jumped off the thread on one side casing a leak. After years of leaks and using huge amounts of expensive gas I gave up brewing. Ok, having young children also played a part but the kk did not help.

Now the kids are older I have returned to home brewing but this time using cronies. As far as I am concerned there is no comparison. Cornies seem to hold pressure every time. I do not like my beer that fizzy and find that using a cornie and gas regulator, my beer is consistently good from first to last pint. The kk cannot match this.

Initial outlay is higher but pub gas is cheap. I have a 14 kg cylinder that lasts forever and costs the same as s30 cylinders.

 

[BIGJIM72]

Some good info BIGJIM.

But I feel that what you are defending there is not the product I have sitting next door. You had to replace both the (unofficial) lid and the tap to get the product to perform at a satisactory level. I don't think that's accceptable frankly. To pay 50 pound plus for half of a functioning product?

My lid definitely does not have a "W" on it. I've inspected every inch of that sucker for one reason or another. Maybe I should contact the manafacturer too.

Appreciate the feedback tho man. Good to know you can make these things work for you.

The instructions that came with my initial barrel suggested replacing the seals after every 10 brews.I only replaced my initial cap after giving it a 20 second blast from an S30 cylinder in an effort to force carb (it was 20 years ago,the internet didn't exist in its current form & no one was injured,luckily. Want to know what happened? Try it for yourself!) But the keg is still fine.

Weltonhurst are the manufacturers-they will supply Youngs & Ritchies with the KK shells & then those companies will then sell on to HBS with non specific lids/taps/floats.

As for replacing the tap-the drum tap is functional at best-like the leads that come in the box with a bit of hi fi.You can get better. A solution to the huge head problem is to attach some hose to the tap (check youtube)

A simple step with KKs to check everything is well-pressure them up after filling with a blast of CO2.Try pouring a glass then try the next day. If no flow on the day after then you have issues.

Looks like someone needs to write a sticky for KK problems

 

[BIGJIM72]

I have owned king kegs for many years and can only report frustration. Getting a good seal and getting the floats to work was always a challenge. Over tightening the lids seems to cause most of the problems as the seals distort and on one of my kegs the lid jumped off the thread on one side casing a leak. After years of leaks and using huge amounts of expensive gas I gave up brewing. Ok, having young children also played a part but the kk did not help.

Now the kids are older I have returned to home brewing but this time using cronies. As far as I am concerned there is no comparison. Cornies seem to hold pressure every time. I do not like my beer that fizzy and find that using a cornie and gas regulator, my beer is consistently good from first to last pint. The kk cannot match this.

Initial outlay is higher but pub gas is cheap. I have a 14 kg cylinder that lasts forever and costs the same as s30 cylinders.

Good seal-check keg rim for obvious burrs,check nut & washers on valve, grease lid & grease O ring with vasoline,drum tap assembly correct & nut tight,float assembly correct (I found some issues caused by the new ball type float were down to the rubber seal on the drum tap connection being faulty) lid hand tight + half turn. Sounds like you damaged the lid through over tightening,but it may well have been mis cast.

I prime with 85 g of sugar in 1/2 pt water (boiled). I charge my keg when it is filled-that way I can check if the seals leak & tighten accordingly.I pour a glass after charging with CO2 then a glass the next day,there should be enough residual pressure to dispense.

I'm sorry that you have had a bad time with KKs-please take no offense but I am chuckling over the non fizzy beer comment as so often folk use cornies to force carb wines/lagers/beers to levels I couldn't hope to achieve with minis/KKs. Personally I would not like a large pressurised gas canister in the same environment as children-another reason I don't corny.

Even more ironically I am working towards converting my KKs along these lines (hopefully still using priming & the odd S 30 blast)
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/view ... 4682bc2d82

You are right my friend-KKs don't match cornies-I can get 23lt in mine.With mostly natural carbonation. Will the new set up work? Time will tell.

 

[Markus]

There would be no shortage of contributors if a sticky existed for KK issues. I think between us a few of the newer brewers on here have experienced possibly every fault you can with a KK. My KK is currently being given it's last chance after having fitted a pressure gauge and tested it with and without water.

 

[LeithR]

I'm with BigJim on KK's I've used them very successfully for the past 20 odd years - yes problems do occasionally arise and as BJ has said its mostly down to human error.

I've replaced all the seals for taps and caps at some time or another - these items are perishable so will degrade with time. I've also kinked the seals by over tightening.

I'm in agreement with your statement that £50 is a bit steep for a KK, I thought that when they were £26 a fair few years ago. Look on your local freecycle and or Car boot sale. I haven't yet paid full price for any of mine and most have come to me either free or for a couple of quid.

I certainly sit on the pro KK side of the house. Having said that I like to bottle a few bottles of each brew I make.

 

[Markus]

If anyone is still monitoring this thread I had a question about CO2 being absorbed into water.

I'm fully testing my TTKK before I put another brew in. I put in a gallon of water and 5 PSI of CO2 pressure. An hour later still 5 PSI. This morning, no pressure. Could so much CO2 be absorbed into so little water?

I ruled out most leak possibilities bar maybe the float/tap and possibly over-tightening. Pumped another 8 PSI in this morning, so if that is gone by this afternoon I have to assume leak right?

Cheers.

 

[Runwell-Steve]

Re gas it up, then stand it upside down overnight, you will soon know if it is leaking then.

 

[Markus]

Also, would submerging the keg in water be advisable as a means of detecting the leak? I thought the instruction said to avoid getting the pressure release mechanism wet but I could be wrong.

 

[Markus]

Will do Steve. I might put some food colouring or something into the water to make it easier to detect where the leak is coming from.

 

[Jakk_P]

Had a skim and didn't see anyone mention 5L Mini-kegs, sorry if I missed it.

Basically for about the last 6 months I have been using mini kegs to rack into. They are fantastic!! They condition the brews wonderfully and if left for long enough can gain quite a large amount of carbonation, for an ale anyway. I have 6 that I got for 5.99 each. They are reusable (albeit you made need to get a few extra bungs (about 50p) in case any start to lose there rigidity (I have had one start to leak out of the 6 over 6 months!) plus you have the advantage of being able to have 'real' cask ale at home without having to guzzle 30+ pints in a week

They have seriously been one of my best investments as of late and I can safely say that I will never go back to any co2 powered keg/barrel. I used budget barrels before and they leaked terribly and I really wasn't impressed with the level of conditioning the beers had, plus having to keep the levels of co2 topped up was inconsistent.

http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/easy-keg.html

Make sure to get the EASY kegs as the MINIkegs on their site are for use with the minikeg starter kit I believe.

Why not try one and see what you think, As I said they are great for conditioning, fairly cheap, and require no Co2.

Heres a picture of one of my bitters that conditioned in the keg for little over a week:

Jack



Edit: I just realised how old this thread is Ha!

 

[GavH]

Dammit! Was all set to go and purchase a KK TT from my LHBS on Fri (even already bought the Brewgas Sparkler Tap in anticipation). Now wondering if I should even bother or perhaps just spend the same money on new bottles. The whole Cornie thing sounds like the way forward, but also sounds a bit more technical than I want to get at this stage.

Wanted the KK for a couple of reasons: Storage space for bottles and the subsequent cleaning isn't so much of an issue with a KK, which will sit in the unused sink space of my utility room (can even add cold water & ice in the summer to keep it cool). I think a sticky on this would be pretty useful if the problems are as widespread as this thread seems to suggest.

 

[TRXnMe]

I've had some good ales out of them, but they do seem to use a fair bit of CO2, especially when it's cold weather.

Cornies are far superior, in my opinion anyway and I'm in the process of making the swap to a collection of cornies from a collection of pressure kegs. The techie isn't as hard to master as it sounds, makes sure you for John Guest fittings and get the pipe from the same seller as the fittings (to make sure it's the right size), get a CO2 regulator off eBay and it should come with a suitable hosetail for john guest 3/8" pipe :)

The hard part is finding a supplier of CO2 bottles for home use.

 

[devexwarrior]

I was asking some questions about KKs elsewhere. I used to use a bottom tap one with an 8g injector. I struggled to get a really good seal, though a new gasket and loads of vaseline worked in the end. After about 8 years use it developed some pink discolouration which didn't seem affect the product, but then developed a serious gas leak that I couldn't cure. After taking the collective advice on here I am going for a budget S30 keg - if nothing else the difference in price is about the same as a Wherry kit which is no bad thing. I usually bottle if I can, so the keg is more often than not used as a secondary fermenter.