John Venables released again!!

[calumscott]

Death penalty argument is far more nebulous (or rather it was in the past) where the types of people (and the cases we've discussed are prime examples) who would find themselves in those realms tend to be psychopathic. Deterrent has no effect.

Are you suggesting that we round up all the psycopaths and kill them? Just to be on the safe side? (apologies if I've mis-interpreted that, but that's how it reads to me)

Erm, no. I'm saying that the deterrent effect doesn't register with psychopaths. Where it would with more rational souls.

 

[calumscott]

Regardless - if we disregard the method of detection of the offence, I am more likely not to give a stuff about breaking the speed limit if the punishment is a twenty quid fine and you'll tell my Mum. Make that punishment a £200 fine and having to drive a 1988 Metro for a year and I'm far less likely to break the law.

As I said, there's a distinction between the instinctive response of "yes, I'm sure that would stop me doing it" and the actual real world effect that, actually, no it doesn't. You can think as much as you like, the truth is: it doesn't. There's evidence to prove it, but as I don't have access to law libraries anymore, I rather (conveniently, you might think :P) can't find it.

Then I must be some kind of freak. For example, I know for a fact that the current 3 (4?) points and £nnn pounds + what it would do to my insurance policy and thereby my monthly disposable budget is EXACTLY what stops me speeding, not whether or not there are speed cameras.

The effect that any form of criminal record would have on my prospects and thereby life and quality thereof (which I value dearly) is EXACTLY what makes me very concious of staying well within the law NOT how many people of authority choose to snoop on what I do or try to catch me out.

It is the prospect of the punishment and additional consequences that act as a deterrent NOT the likelihood of being caught. Being caught means jack if there is no prospect of sufficiently bad things happening to you when you are.

IMO.

 

[alanywiseman.]

Been following this thread and thought I would throw my 2 cents in.

I am completly against the death penalty. I would not argue that if it was one of my loved ones that was murdered I would want revenge but that is not juctise. For me the prison should be about rehabilitaion and not punishment. For those that are repeat offenders they go into jail, get the food and a bed then are release having learnt nothing. Why not teach them a skill or get them to provide a service.

As an example there is a womans prison in the US where dogs are rescued from shelters (that would in time but destroyed, the dogs not the shelters) and placed with inmates. The inmates then train the dogs to become assistance dogs for those people with an impairment. Most of the women have never had a job, never earned any money, never had to work with co-workers etc but this program teaches them these skills and will give them a fightiung chance at getting a job after leaving. This is just one of many ways that people can be helped to not reoffend and for me killing them is not aan option.

P.S. On an ealier post someone said that castration stoped pediophiles feeling the attraction to children. This is not true, the attracting is still there but the function to do aything about it is gone.

 

[markmark]

Appreciate that clarification callumscott.

...The effect that any form of criminal record would have on my prospects and thereby life and quality thereof (which I value dearly) is EXACTLY what makes me very concious of staying well within the law......

I think you've touched on a very valid point there. That post suggests you do have prospects and a quality of life that you value. Many don't and thus probably feel that they have little to lose. maybe, I don't know??
What we are discussing here is a lot more complex than a particular crime leading to a particular outcome. You have to ask why people are committing the crimes in the first place (social and economic background, parental influence or lack of, abuse issues, mental health, I'm sure there is more) and what can be done to tackle that.

 

[calumscott]

Appreciate that clarification callumscott.

...The effect that any form of criminal record would have on my prospects and thereby life and quality thereof (which I value dearly) is EXACTLY what makes me very concious of staying well within the law......

I think you've touched on a very valid point there. That post suggests you do have prospects and a quality of life that you value. Many don't and thus probably feel that they have little to lose. maybe, I don't know??
What we are discussing here is a lot more complex than a particular crime leading to a particular outcome. You have to ask why people are committing the crimes in the first place (social and economic background, parental influence or lack of, abuse issues, mental health, I'm sure there is more) and what can be done to tackle that.

This is ENTIRELY correct. But I say attack both ends, try to make things better than they are currently for people up front and worse than they are currently for them if the break the law. Widen the gap between toeing the line and not - I see no reason why only one of those is valid.

 

[markmark]

I see no reason why only one of those is valid.

I agree.....until people start talking of the noose that is.

 

[calumscott]

Anyway, this is all just my opinion, not based on any learning or research whatsoever, just personal experience. I've said all I have that's relevant to the topic so, Dragon stylee, "I'm out..." :

 

[home brewer]

I'd like to think that offenders could be rehabilitated particularly lesser crime. I do like the idea of outsourcing our overcrowded jails with some purpose 'built' units in China, and let them moan about subtitles for Sky Sports, and 20 people to a cell over there. Surely that would be a deterrent, here inmates get to appeal if they are in a nick too far from home, where they dont have any mates, and it's a maither for their visitors. Fed up of seeing tv programs where the drivers have no insurance or licence mostly, travelling in dangerous vehicles, fed up of seeing pick-pockets known thieves working their gangs, and they nearly always get away with it or just a warning. Mongolia the lot of them.
If anyone did the unspeakable with my kids I would surley want retribution, certainly they would have to spend their whole life locked up, not for our safety, but for theirs. We cant get tough on lesser crime in this country, what chance is there with the more heinous.
grrrr

 

[hypnoticmonkey]

I would just like to say that when I said I like the idea of some kind of segregated living thing, I wasn't supporting a convict island or shipping them off to China!