It's that time again-best place to buy grains for delivery?

[borischarlton]

That flies in the face of the clear guidance set out in VFOOD9000 which does say it is how it is packaged that matters "when they are in any way packaged or prepared for use home brewing and wine making"

No it doesn't, you are missing the important bit "The same materials, (malt, hops, hop extract, barley etc), not prepared in this way and supplied to the commercial brewing industry, are therefore zero- rated"
Which, if we do supply a brewery zero rated we have to get their HMRC Brewery number.

 

[DaleMC]

No it doesn't, you are missing the important bit "The same materials, (malt, hops, hop extract, barley etc), not prepared in this way and supplied to the commercial brewing industry, are therefore zero- rated"
Which, if we do supply a brewery zero rated we have to get their HMRC Brewery number.

'not prepared in this way' is arguably the important part of that sentence... They're defining the value add as the retail packaging for home brew in the core part of the sentence. I think perhaps the key question for you may actually be the fact that it's marketed at home brewers which makes the former true to some degree (even if not strictly). If it was a business product and positioned that way with occasional hobbyist customers VAT wouldn't be chargeable under this notice. Also there is a reasonable argument that people may buy barley in sacks for product development or other non homebrew purposes when not an HMRC registered brewer.

 

[Clint]

So,the product to qualify for zero VAT has to be both in its original "bulk" packaging AND supplied to a brewery with a HMRC number?

 

[The Baron]

It sounds to me it depends on how you read the terms. I do know my brother was a Vat inspector and he said many years ago even they read somethings differently depending on the officer. I am not saying regarding the brewing issue but many other things so what one officer said yes to another could say no.
I do know most homebrew shops include vat and whether they carry this through to 25k sacks is a play safe who knows.
I am sure some of you Vat registered business owners could ask your Vat inspectors and see if we do get a different opinion, now wouldn't that be interesting

 

[Agentgonzo]

It sounds to me it depends on how you read the terms. I do know my brother was a Vat inspector and he said many years ago even they read somethings differently depending on the officer. I am not saying regarding the brewing issue but many other things so what one officer said yes to another could say no.
I do know most homebrew shops include vat and whether they carry this through to 25k sacks is a play safe who knows.
I am sure some of you Vat registered business owners could ask your Vat inspectors and see if we do get a different opinion, now wouldn't that be interesting

As far as I'm aware, it doesn't matter how we interpret the rules, it's how the VAT officials/judge interpret them. And in the case of HMRC, they will always tend to interpret the rules as "we'll interpret them so that we get paid tax at some point in the chain".

Grain for brewers is exempt tax (duty) is paid when selling the beer, so HMRC are happy
Grain for homebrewers incurs VAT so HMRC are happy
If 25kg sacks of malt for homebrewers wouldn't incur VAT then I'd expect HMRC to disagree with your interpretation.

 

[The Baron]

It's not my interpretation Agent i was playing devils advocate. I do not know the answer and I think you are right in that all homebrew shops will charge Vat. I did contact a maltster who said they would not charge vat on 25 kg sacks and I did say I was a homebrewer

 

[moto748]

So, VAT controversy aside, where are we with current prices? Get 'Er Brewed seem to have bog-standard Crisp Best Ale at around 45 quid, plus about seven quid carriage. Is that about as good as it gets these days?

 

[The Baron]

I bought from Brupaks in Sheffield £31 for extra pale and £34 for extra pale Crisps MO.
I did not pay for delivery as it is over their threshold so 2 sacks for £65.70 delivered by Fed Ex

 

[Rodcx500z]

So, VAT controversy aside, where are we with current prices? Get 'Er Brewed seem to have bog-standard Crisp Best Ale at around 45 quid, plus about seven quid carriage. Is that about as good as it gets these days?

Moto your in wigan arn't you, Spitting feathers Bolton Spitting Feathers – Crushed Crisp Pale Malt. 25kg | Spitting Feathers £35-00

 

[Galena]

Staffordshire brewery PRICE LIST

They do charge £5 per 25kg sack "handling charge" if under 6 bags. No minimum order and they do deliver by carrier (charge applies)

 

[moto748]

Moto your in wigan arn't you, Spitting feathers Bolton Spitting Feathers – Crushed Crisp Pale Malt. 25kg | Spitting Feathers £35-00

Yes, Rod, I am, thanks. Although I'd prefer a common or garden base malt, or MO, rather than an extra pale.

 

[MashBag]

It sounds to me it depends on how you read the terms.

That is very much the case.

THERE IS NO wrong or right in that rule, until its been tested in court, then there is a precedence

I can think of at least two examples of "interpretation of the rules" and one specific where HMRC lost in court.

 

[moto748]

I just rang the place Galena links to. Delivery killed it for me, put the price of a bag of pale Planet malt up to £46. I asked for a price the other day in my local homebrew shop, and they said they'd do me a bag for £48. For the sake of a couple of quid, I might as well support my local shop.

 

[lancon]

I just rang the place Galena links to. Delivery killed it for me, put the price of a bag of pale Planet malt up to £46. I asked for a price the other day in my local homebrew shop, and they said they'd do me a bag for £48. For the sake of a couple of quid, I might as well support my local shop.

Fortunately for me, my nearest shop is the maltings!!

 

[The Baron]

Try Brupaks Sheffield they are a bit low on supply but free delivery over £45 so a bag and a few bits will get you to free delivery

 

[Galena]

I just rang the place Galena links to. Delivery killed it for me, put the price of a bag of pale Planet malt up to £46. I asked for a price the other day in my local homebrew shop, and they said they'd do me a bag for £48. For the sake of a couple of quid, I might as well support my local shop.

That's a shame, so I guess VAT to go on the list price of £23 makes delivery quite expensive. Fortunately its only 30 min drive for me though I have not been for a couple of years as I buy from a more local brewery.

 

[Garry247]

Well placed order this aft and will be delivered between 8.30 am and 12.30pm tomorrow.
If that happens on time excellent and delivery free

I thought delivery was £8. Is it free with more quantity. Thx

 

[The Baron]

Yes it is free over from memory £65 so 2 sacks will come free or it was when I got my order