Is this brew buggered, growth on top in FV?

[Dave 666]

Well 2 days ago I noticed a completely transparent skin had formed on my brew after having transferred it to the secondary FV to settle before bottling. Only today I open it up for bottling and note it's now gone white. Putting a spoon it to inspect it simply breaks up rather than an actual skin I can lift and move.

Any ideas as totally not got a clue, maybe just oily residue from the higher hop bill and dry hopping?.

 

[braziliain]

It looks perfectly fine, stop poking it!

Seriously though, is it not just yeast? It's difficult to tell from the photo?

 

[MmmmCitra]

Hmmmm, looks a bit iffy to me i'm afraid

 

[Hoppyland]

Hmm. I'm not so sure. It's not a great photo, but this could be a pellicle produced by a wild yeast. Is there any peculiar smell associated with it?

 

[Dave 666]

Drawn a little sample, doesn't really taste off as such. But my concern is that it's gone from a completely transparent film to a white milky like film that simply breaks apart to as in the pic.

 

[Dave 666]

Tried getting a better pic, no iffy smell either. But don't want to waste time bottling up a spoilt brew if better off binning!.

 

[Hoppyland]

But my concern is that it's gone from a completely transparent film to a white milky like film that simply breaks apart to as in the pic.

That definitely sounds dubious. I think that it's very likely to be a wild yeast, probably one that grows in the presence of oxygen. Was the beer still noticeably fermenting when transferred to secondary? If not, then you wouldn't have developed a protective layer of CO2 on top of the beer unless you purged the headspace (e.g. with CO2 gas from a cylinder. I've had these wild yeast pellicles in the past, and they can produce very nasty off-flavours - "solventy" "medicinal" "nail polish remover" etc. The thin pellicle, or skin, produced tends to be very brittle, breaking up at the slightest disturbance and not at all like brewers yeast.
Try googling "beer + Mycoderma" , "beer + Candida" or "flowers of wine".
If there's no noticeable off-flavour then you might try gently transferring the beer, leaving the floating debris behind, into a container leaving minimal headspace and trying to purge with CO2 to stop further aerobic growth.
If it does turn out to be an infection, then you'll need to sterilise (not sanitise) anything that's been in contact with it. I'd use long contact with neat thin bleach, followed by boiling water.

 

[Dave 666]

Gonna bin it and cut my losses and time I think. I'm looking back over my notes and dry hopped in a hop sock, all was fine. Removed the hop sock after 4 days and left to settle. Transferred to bottling vessel, all looked fine and no signs of this. So this happened between transferring to a secondary vessel and now.

 

[Dutto]

I've just stuck this in a couple of Growlers ...

Tastes okay ...

... so far!!

 

[Hoppyland]

Well, I guess your decision is probably wise.

So this happened between transferring to a secondary vessel and now.

I'm guessing that this is the crucial point. OK it is a bit of a guess, since I can't experience your problem at first hand. But, my bet is that air has been introduced in this transfer and has allowed a wild yeast to get in, and to multiply on top of your beer because there is oxygen there.

 

[Hoppyland]

Tastes okay ...

... so far!!

OK, but this does look like yeasty, trubby, hop-pellety debris etc.
I suspect that Dave 666's problem was different - like a very thin, flaky, floating layer on top the beer that only develops when the fermentation is finished (probably well finished). And, of a suspiciously pure-white colour, if its what I suspect it is.

 

[Dave 666]

Well, I guess your decision is probably wise.

I'm guessing that this is the crucial point. OK it is a bit of a guess, since I can't experience your problem at first hand. But, my bet is that air has been introduced in this transfer and has allowed a wild yeast to get in, and to multiply on top of your beer because there is oxygen there.

Possibly, I'm guessing that if I bottled directly instead of transferring to a bottling vessel for a few days things would probably have been fine. Not sure of transferring to a secondary bottling vessel next time in case the same thing happens again. As I'd put a lot of time (and hops) into the brew and dont want to risk it for the sake of happening twice.

It was the first time I'd done a transfer from main FV to bottling FV to settle for a few days so can only assume the transfer is were things went wrong. Used the same pump\tube method as I do for bottling, maybe simply pour it from 1 bucket to another or spoon it in carefully with a (sterilised) jug or something?. What method do others use to transfer from main FV to secondary bottling FV as maybe I missed something obvious mistake wise?.

 

[braziliain]

I use a plain old £3 Wilko plastic Syphon tube to transfer from FV to bottling bucket. I pre fill it with starsan then let that drain out, pulling the beer through behind it. A technique I saw in a video @Hoddy put together.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi @Dave 666
I use an autosyphon to transfer - stand it in a vessel of sanitising solution and draw several litres through (into the bottling bucket to sanitise that). I spray the exterior surfaces with sanitiser just before using it.
One thing you may want to try is to bottle from the bottling bucket immediately - don't let it rest.
If you are introducing a wild yeast, getting the brew conditioning in the bottle as soon as you can is the best thing - your brewing yeast will rapidly overpower the wild yeast.
I've never had a problem with wild yeast, but then again, no self-respecting wild yeast could survive in Donny!

 

[Bigcol49]

Me again, @Dave 666
Re-reading the complete thread, you've had advice ranging from, "Leave it alone, it'll be OK" to "It's the dreaded wild yeast - chuck it".
10 homebrewers, 11 opinions!
My ten-pennorth is this : if it absolutely breaks your heart to cchuck the brew, then go ahead with it, ignoring the stuf on the surface. I you don't give a f . . . , if discarding the brew is a matter of complete indifference, get it down the drain as soon as you can.
Personally, it would break my heart to chuck a brew - I've poured 40 bottles of undercarbed beer into a FV and added extra yeast to get it carbed better rather than throw it away. There'll be those who throw up their hand and warn about oxidation, wild yeast, sanitisation, flagellation, regulation, integrations, meditations, United Nations, congratulations.
All we are saying is give yeast a chance.

 

[Mavroz]

Me being me, if I don't like the look of things I wouldn't want to bottle it as I wouldn't want to drink it if I thought something was wrong....

Everyone is different though.

 

[connor7932]

any brew i don,t like the look of,i put in 12 - 2l coke/pop bottles,prime "n" forget.time will sort it
ether way.some of my best beers have been the lost one,s ,9-12 months later.

 

[Cwrw666]

A skin of wild yeast in my experience doesn't much affect the taste of your beer. I bottle from the tap of my FV so I'm draining the beer from under the pellicle which gets left behind stuck to the sides of the FV. If you get any of it in the bottle however you'll end up with a `gusher' as the wild yeast continues to ferment the beer in the bottle.
Refrigeration reduces this somewhat but just pop the cap and pour quickly into a jug. You'll end up with a load of froth but it'll settle quickly and you can pour it into the glass and your beer will be fine as long as your yeast is sticky like gervin or SO4.

 

[IainM]

Sure looks like a pellicle to me. The white bubbly bits are a giveaway, sacc doesn't do that. Unfortunately you can't tell what it is just from looking at it, even with a microscope, so what the effect might be can range from improving it with nice sour or bretty notes (unlikely), to nothing or tasting a little bit odd if it stops growing once put in a bottle and the oxygen goes, to getting progressively worse until it tastes disgusting and possibly developing a 'ropey' texture. I'd take my chances and bottle it, but it's up to you. As others recommend, clean and sanitise your equipment thoroughly, as biofilms have a tendency to stick to things, especially nooks and crannies.

 

[Dutto]

.......... As others recommend, clean and sanitise your equipment thoroughly, as biofilms have a tendency to stick to things, especially nooks and crannies.

That's why the FV involved (and its lid) has been washed in boiling water, steeped in a bleach/water solution, rinsed with fresh water and dried and then sprayed with StarSan and allowed to dry.

It is now sitting in the garage waiting for it's next job; before which it will get another dose of Starsan!