Is it all worth it ? I need convincing.

[Green0]

So I guess I've done five or six kits now with varying success ranging from perfectly drinkable to the downright awfull (Gluten free), Ive tried a variety of lagers an bitters using all the reccomended ingredients I think.

The problems I have are whilst they are drinkable I cant help but feel they have a slight taste of something maybe yeast and they're not quite right, and I'm sure that even though I dont have enough to give me a proper hangover they tend to leave me groggy and tired the next day especially pm even after two pints.

Is there something obvious i'm doing wrong? Maybe I need to get the temp more accurate or constant.

Ta

 

[MyQul]

I would say that taste of "something" is the famed 'home brew twang' I read on a forum what probably causes it but I can't remember now.

Groggy and tired the next day, maybe your getting some fusil alcohols in your beer. What temps are you fermenting at? You want to keep (ideally) 18C-20C no more than 22C

Sounds to me as if your just disappointed with kits, which is fair enough. You get a good beer with a kit but I don't think you get a beer as good as you might in a pub. I reckon it's time for you to consider moving on. Maybe to extract or straight on to AG like I did. Doing BIAB (if you dont want to/cant go straight 3V) you've got most of the equipment you need. All you really need extra is a big pot and a mash bag. You''ll be amazed at the results you can get. Usually better any beer you''ll get in a pub

 

[Green0]

I would say that taste of "something" is the famed 'home brew twang' I read on a forum what probably causes it but I can't remember now.

Groggy and tired the next day, maybe your getting some fusil alcohols in your beer. What temps are you fermenting at? You want to keep (ideally) 18C-20C no more than 22C

Sounds to me as if your just disappointed with kits, which is fair enough. You get a good beer with a kit but I don't think you get a beer as good as you might in a pub. I reckon it's time for you to consider moving on. Maybe to extract or straight on to AG like I did. Doing BIAB (if you dont want to/cant go straight 3V) you've got most of the equipment you need. All you really need extra is a big pot and a mash bag. You''ll be amazed at the results you can get. Usually better any beer you''ll get in a pub

May have been a tad warm I think perhaps I'll try another being a bit more anal with the temp.

Havn't looked at anything further than kits tbh and not too sure on all the acronyms (all grain I think, boil in a bag ? 3v? god knows) but cant really see the better half approving any way.

I just seem to haver alot of clutter, a spare fridge in the garage overflowing with lager and am still buying bottles of tasty stella.:)

 

[Hopping_Mad]

My kits that had 'the twang' were the early ones where my temperature control was lacking. I think this may be your problem also.

Now I have mastered this, my output is every bit as good as the pub, but maybe not quite as good as well made BIAB or all grain batches.

Have you been maintaining a constant target temperature for the yeast?

 

[Green0]

"Have you been maintaining a constant target temperature for the yeast?"

No, Ive just let nature run its course to be fair so it must have been up and down, day and night I suppose.

I had thought about the temp thing but keep getting told off for spending money
"I thought this was supposed to save us money", so whats the best way to get the temp constant ?

 

[MyQul]

"Have you been maintaining a constant target temperature for the yeast?"

No, Ive just let nature run its course to be fair so it must have been up and down, day and night I suppose.

I had thought about the temp thing but keep getting told off for spending money
"I thought this was supposed to save us money", so whats the best way to get the temp constant ?

cheapest way(i know) is the water bath. Get a 40L trug bucket (one of those flexible builders buckets) from B&Q (£4) put you FV in it with water. To cool use ice bottles. To heat use an aquarium heater

 

[Green0]

cheapest way(i know) is the water bath. Get a 40L trug bucket (one of those flexible builders buckets) from B&Q (£4) put you FV in it with water. To cool use ice bottles. To heat use an aquarium heater

So the aquarium heater has a built in thermostat I suppose ? Someone else did suggest this but only as a method to cool.

 

[MyQul]

So the aquarium heater has a built in thermostat I suppose ? Someone else did suggest this but only as a method to cool.

yes it has a built in thermostat

 

[DoctorMick]

cheapest way(i know) is the water bath. Get a 40L trug bucket (one of those flexible builders buckets) from B&Q (£4) put you FV in it with water. To cool use ice bottles. To heat use an aquarium heater

That's my setup and it works a treat, heater needs to be set a few degrees higher than the desired fermentation temperature at the minute tho.

 

[Green0]

Not sure wether I'm maybe expecting too much tbh.

I'm not expecting mainstream quality but if I'm honest I dont really relish the thought of cracking one open after work, I guess i'll give it another go with better temp control.

 

[nixhaz]

For the fishtank heater, I use this one and it holds the temp perfectly, super cheap. In really cold weather in my warehouse I put 2 in one gorilla bucket to maintain the temp, but if you are brewing at home one will be plenty.

Temp really is critical for decent beer IMO.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00B29NNQG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Green0]

For the fishtank heater, I use this one and it holds the temp perfectly, super cheap. In really cold weather in my warehouse I put 2 in one gorilla bucket to maintain the temp, but if you are brewing at home one will be plenty.

Temp really is critical for decent beer IMO.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00B29NNQG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thanks, I may have to move operations to the summerhouse or garage myself so I guess I could just buy a 100w one rather than 2x50w

 

[Triker]

I'm old enough to remember my old mans home brew (kits) in the 70's. It was horrible stuff and it definately had that 'home brew twang' to it.

Thankfully kits are much better these days. I changed to AG over a year ago and I wasn't disappointed. Gone is the familiar taste of home brew rep[laced with some of the best beer I have tasted. There is no comparison to AG for the real ale taste. Its a no brainer in my opinion. :)

 

[wezil]

Hi, for what it's worth I think the 'twang' is caused as much by not skimming the krausen off regularly (done this twice got good beer, forgot once got 'twangy' beer)! This is rarely mentioned in the instructions or in on line guides, but the pro's do it. (Also time is a great healer I find). Temp control is quite important but so long as it doesn't vary wildly over a short space of time or get to hot (cold just slows it down, to much heat kills it) it should be fine.

 

[MyQul]

Hi, for what it's worth I think the 'twang' is caused as much by not skimming the krausen off regularly (done this twice got good beer, forgot once got 'twangy' beer)! This is rarely mentioned in the instructions or in on line guides, but the pro's do it. (Also time is a great healer I find).

That's really interesting, I dont do kits anymore but interesting nevertheless. I seem to remember reading about skimming the krausen the other day. I think it was saying something about it risks infection - can't quite remember now :wha:

 

[Cwrw666]

You don't go into much detail of what you're brewing, how you're doing it, how quickly you're doing it etc. So here are my thoughts for what they're worth. The twang you refer to I tend to associate with the cheaper sort of kits, often referred to as 1 can kits. The twang is caused because you're using sugar in place of malt and it's much worse until the brew has matured for several weeks in the bottle. Don't believe the timings they give you with the kit - they're always way too optimistic. In my experience 1 can kits need a good 2 weeks in the fermenting bin before they've finished and cleared a bit. I know some people will leave it even longer. You then bottle. Some kits are drinkable after only a week, but I've had others that need more like a month til they're at their best.
Then there's the more expensive kits, often referred to as 2 can kits. I've only ever done 1 of these and it has no twang at all because all the fermentables are malt. Some people cheat with a 1 can kit and don't use sugar but replace it with extra malt - so basically converting a 1 can kit into a 2 can kit. Because it's all malt, fermentation can take a lot longer - maybe even a month in the FV - but you'll be rewarded by a brew that's as good as anything you'll buy.
A further step up are `all grain' brews, either brew in a bag, or done the `proper' way. I've only ever done 1 all grain brew and it turned out c**p - as all grain takes a degree of skill and knowledge you don't need for kit brewing.
You should also bear in mind what your water is like. Different kinds of beer are best with different kinds of water. For example we have very acid water here - which is very good for stout, okay for bitter, but bad for lager. I've tried brewing lager but it doesn't come out right, but the stout I make a lot of is excellent even though it's a 1 can kit.
The 2 can kits cost about 20 - 25 quid which may seem a lot but it's only about 60p a bottle if it's a 40pint kit. So 1 can kits can be a false economy as you're only saving about 10p. You can lose some of their twang as well, by making up to a smaller volume and using less sugar, but of course if you do that you're making it dearer/pint so you may as well have started with a 2 can kit in the first place.
A good bit of advice is always check out the beer kit reviews here on this forum before you buy a kit. Some - like the gluten free kit you mention - everyone says is awful, but others seem universally to be liked. Stick to those.

 

[Green0]

You don't go into much detail of what you're brewing, how you're doing it, how quickly you're doing it etc. So here are my thoughts for what they're worth. The twang you refer to I tend to associate with the cheaper sort of kits, often referred to as 1 can kits. The twang is caused because you're using sugar in place of malt and it's much worse until the brew has matured for several weeks in the bottle. Don't believe the timings they give you with the kit - they're always way too optimistic. In my experience 1 can kits need a good 2 weeks in the fermenting bin before they've finished and cleared a bit. I know some people will leave it even longer. You then bottle. Some kits are drinkable after only a week, but I've had others that need more like a month til they're at their best.
Then there's the more expensive kits, often referred to as 2 can kits. I've only ever done 1 of these and it has no twang at all because all the fermentables are malt. Some people cheat with a 1 can kit and don't use sugar but replace it with extra malt - so basically converting a 1 can kit into a 2 can kit. Because it's all malt, fermentation can take a lot longer - maybe even a month in the FV - but you'll be rewarded by a brew that's as good as anything you'll buy.
A further step up are `all grain' brews, either brew in a bag, or done the `proper' way. I've only ever done 1 all grain brew and it turned out c**p - as all grain takes a degree of skill and knowledge you don't need for kit brewing.
You should also bear in mind what your water is like. Different kinds of beer are best with different kinds of water. For example we have very acid water here - which is very good for stout, okay for bitter, but bad for lager. I've tried brewing lager but it doesn't come out right, but the stout I make a lot of is excellent even though it's a 1 can kit.
The 2 can kits cost about 20 - 25 quid which may seem a lot but it's only about 60p a bottle if it's a 40pint kit. So 1 can kits can be a false economy as you're only saving about 10p. You can lose some of their twang as well, by making up to a smaller volume and using less sugar, but of course if you do that you're making it dearer/pint so you may as well have started with a 2 can kit in the first place.
A good bit of advice is always check out the beer kit reviews here on this forum before you buy a kit. Some - like the gluten free kit you mention - everyone says is awful, but others seem universally to be liked. Stick to those.

Thanks, the kits have all been the cheaper ones so I guess that must be part of the problem though I did use some of the light spray malt from wilko's to try to improve some of the later attempts, thinkl I've got 60 odd bottles in the garage at the mo so will prob be a while before I do another but at least they will be in the bottle for longer.

Thanks again for the post

 

[nixhaz]

Another thing that can make any beer taste rank is the sanitizer. I had to chuck an entire AG batch (nooooooo) as I didn't rinse enough. It just tasted Nasty. Like a sort of rubbery harsh taste. No good at all. If your water is very chlorinated it can influence the flavour of the beer too.
I chuck half a crushed campden tablet in to get rid of the chlorine in my tap water for brewing, and I now only use Starsan sanitizer as it is no rinse and cheap as chips.

 

[the_kitchen_brewer]

Not sure wether I'm maybe expecting too much tbh.

I'm not expecting mainstream quality but if I'm honest I dont really relish the thought of cracking one open after work, I guess i'll give it another go with better temp control.

Funnily enough since I started brewing my own about a year ago, mainstream brews tend to dissapoint me in comparison!

I'm certainly no expert but I've not had a bad batch in the 8 or 9 kits I've brewed to date. Whereas my mate who probably knows as much as I do has brewed 2 kits and thrown them both away. So it seems there is a fine-line between success and failure!

Local water supply probably plays a part - here in Liverpool tap water is fine, but as my mate lives in London I suspect using tap water could be what's causing him problems.

Temperature-wise I bought a little oil-filled radiator with a thermostat from Ebay for £12 which helps with the overnight temperatures (I avoided brewing in the height of summer and haven't used any lager yeast kits so cooling not been an issue).

I always extend the time specified by the kits - min 2-3 weeks in primary, usually avoid tasting for around 4 weeks.

I use StarSan - all those American brewers can't be wrong :)

If you have a local homebrew shop, ask if they do samples - my local has about 5 or 6 beers in barrels and will happily give you a small sample to taste - if you like the sample in the shop but not what you produce at home then presumably something has gone wrong (and your LHBS if as helpful as mine may give you some pointers as to what's gone wrong). Course if you don't like the sample in the shop then perhaps homebrew (at least from kits) isn't for you

 

[brooklandbackyardbrewery]

lager is a buggar to get right, (taste like shop bought) even a good make from a can ie Coopers, come with an Ale yeast. you might want to try a lager yeast but these need a much lower temp than ale yeast, nothing is straight forward. have you tried "two can kits" these generaly give a better finished brew because you dont have to add sugar which can give the off flavours you talk of