Infected plastics

[mmaguy41]

I have recently had several infected beers, they all were beers i fermented in my coopers fermenter so i have thrown it away and only used standard ones (new) to stop the problem, however a tt landlord i brewed that i put into a plastic carboy for secondary now has mould floating on it. It was brewed in a new fermenter and tasted great coming out of primary so i think the problem is the carboy so i will bin that too. My question is should i throw away my other plastics that have touched infected beers, such as spoons and syphons? Has anybody else had a bad run of infected brews. Just to clarify i have tried soaking all the equiptment in sanitizer and cleaner it was then all rinsed and star sanned before use

 

[graysalchemy]

I was besieged with infected brews this time last year. What was the strength and how long were they in the secondry. All mine that were infected were in the secondry for aboiut 3 weeks which is to long especially if the abv is below 5%.

I didn't throw away any of my plastic vesels and haven't had a problem since. I do however steam everything before i use it (just place an upturned vessel over an open kettle and let it boil for 5 minutes) and spray with videne as well.

 

[calumscott]

What's the rest of your process like?

I have no doubt that your equipment up front is properly clean, that's the easy bit...

...the harder part is following the most rigorous aseptic techniques possible in the domestic kitchen or amateur brewery. Simple things...

Do you keep the lid on a sterilised bucket at all times?
Do you take the lid off completely when siphoning in to the FV?
How do you start your siphon?
What skin sanitation do you employ?
What do you put your equipment on after sanitation and rinsing?
How often do you open your FV?

etc...

etc...

I know how hard it is to not poke around and tinker with brews and I know how hard it is to be perfectly scrupulous when brewing/racking/bottling so its not a criticism, I get it wrong all the time but I think I've only had one dodgy Porter which may have been an infection or maybe just bad beer (a kit).

Take some time to think through your processes and highlight areas of concern with some basics in mind. The places you can get infections from:

- equipment
- surfaces that equipment may come in contact with after equipment sanitation
- the air
- additions to your beer
- you

And be honest with yourself when you do!! Like I say, I'm nowhere near perfect and regularly have a brew bubbling where I think "I hope I got away with that..."

...I guess I best go do the same before I lose one!

 

[mmaguy41]

yes i have tried to improve with each infection, its just every brew i have had in my coopers fermenter since my first infection has become infected, i hadnt had an infection using other buckets until this one which seemed fine until going into secondary, i usually use an authosyphon but i broke it so this time i had to suck on the end of the tube which obviously isnt good. I will probably get a new autosyphon anyway because they are really handy. Im thinking i may try not doing secondary with the 2 brews i have on and see if they survive. All the brews i have on at the moment are between 4 and 5%. Im guessing i should just dump my tt landlord as it has visible mould on it?

 

[calumscott]

Visible mold is probably not good. Is it hairy? Hairy things tend to be fungi which can be quite difficult to kill as they tend to form spores. Spores are just packets of the genetic material encased in something to keep them safe. Really hard to deal with as there isn't much in there to disrupt to make it not viable any more.

I'm guessing that heat is going to work well by denaturing proteins in the spore and perhaps even its DNA (so boiling water - keeping it hot enough for long enough in a plastic bucket is going to be the challenge), strong bleach solution should also do the trick...

 

[Zedilly]

I'm glad I've spotted this thread as I am new to brewing and my first ever brew became infected and was poured away just last week. I was using brand new equipment and sterilised it all very well. Now I may have just been unlucky and the infection may not have been due to poor sterilisation but on the other hand it could be that I placed a piece of my sterilised equipment on a kitchen work top or towel. I don't recall doing either of these but as it was my first brew I was busy making sure everything else was right and I suppose it's an easy mistake to make as a beginner ( to make myself feel better I'm putting it down to bad luck rather than my own mistake).

Going back to the op's point about keeping or throwing away plastics after infection I have cleaned and cleaned and cleaned my plastic fv and I cannot get rid of the sour smell of my infected brew. I have not sterilised it yet but I have probably used half a bottle of washing up liquid whilst scrubbing it to death and it still stinks :sick:

 

[calumscott]

Bicarbonate of Soda is brilliant for getting rid of smells... :thumb:

 

[pittsy]

yes to that too , plus bleach first , fill with hot water and a good dose of bleach , leave for 30 plus mins (or overnight if its really bad , but i doubt it ) then rinse with warm/hot water around 5 times , that should do it .

 

[PD]

as an aside to sterilisation, and infections possibly building up on your equipment. It is better if you change your steriliser a couple of times a year so that any nasties don't get the opportunity to build up a resistance to it. Now and again a good clean in common bleach both inside and outside of the vessels and their lids will pay dividends.

During the brewing year I pick a day every so often, when I can give the whole brewing area ( I'm rather lucky in having a spot in garage dedicated to brewing ) a really good scrub down and I prefer to use a strongish mixture of bleach.

 

[mmaguy41]

i generally sanitize the fermenter im going to be using first then place any spoons etc on the sanitized lid and spray with star san before using them again, but i may start filling a second vessel with star san and just placing anything im going to use in there. Ive just bought a handheld steam cleaner too which may help, and i think i will invest in a couple of glass carboys for secondary in future.

 

[PD]

Glass carbouys are very good, but they need care in their use. Hottish water is to be avoided if possible and wear slippers not steel toe caps !
but they do prevent oxidation of you brew during any long fermentation.

Glass is best...................but delicate

 

[wilsoa1111]

all good advice- but im sure bacteria etc cannot "build up a resistance" to things like bleachs and detergents and the like, just cant- it is true that different microorganisms eg fungi may not be killed by some agents so they may build up- btw bleach if up to 0.1% will kill, bleach of 1% will kill and dissolve everything given time and made up fresh fact- however if the materials are porous and the bleach doesnt sink in the organisms may survive-i doubt plastics count

 

[bobsbeer]

I hope when you scrub your plastic you didn't use anything abrasive. Plastic scratches easily and nasties can get into the scratches. So far, touch wood, I've been lucky. I always use thin bleach diluted on everything, and so far no infection. I hope you can eliminate it.

 

[Zedilly]

I hope when you scrub your plastic you didn't use anything abrasive. Plastic scratches easily and nasties can get into the scratches. So far, touch wood, I've been lucky. I always use thin bleach diluted on everything, and so far no infection. I hope you can eliminate it.

I used a nice soft bristled brush, so soft in fact you could probably scrub the cheeks of yer bum for a week and them not even turn pink.

Sorry to the op, this is only the second thread I've been involved in and I feel as though I am hijacking it.

 

[graysalchemy]

I'm guessing that heat is going to work well by denaturing proteins in the spore and perhaps even its DNA (so boiling water - keeping it hot enough for long enough in a plastic bucket is going to be the challenge), strong bleach solution should also do the trick...

Steam does the trick invert the vessel over an open kettle switch on and leave to boil away for 5 minutes or so the plastic will get very hot and the steam will kill everything inside, well perhaps not everything as you need to autoclave to do that.

I have brewed in vessels which have previously been infected with acetobacter (vinegar bugs) and had no problems with the next batch getting reinfected.

How long did you leave the beer in the secondary FV and what was the strength of the beer, as I said if you leave it for any length of time and it is not 7%+ then it will become infected from airbourne infections quite quickly. Every time you open the lid all host of nastie will get in.

 

[mmaguy41]

lid was only opened to transfer, it was its only been in there 8 days now

 

[Ian...]

A naive question:

What exactly, does an infection look like? Is it obvious?

cheers

 

[PD]

think of moulds... bad smells....floaty bits.... funny colours....you get the idea

 

[robsan77]

Depends on the infection. I've had wild yeast get hold when fermentation is slow to start but they aren't a problem.

I did have a run of VERY sour beers last year and couldn't get rid of it. Lactobaccilus I believe. It colonised the plastic and you couldn't get it off. It looked like superglue.
Had to bin the plastic fvs.

It doesn't bond to Ss as well thank god.

 

[wilsoa1111]

yeah ss is prob the way to go- cant really use bleach on it though-pits the metal and makes a bugs life easier