I have a drinking issue and need some assitance.

[Frisp]

This is not a normal brewing forum request for help. as bigger is normally better but I wonder if less will be more in my case .

Last time I brewed I was, shall we say, a high consumer of ale and ciders. so 19L kegs didnt last long, especially when friends would often come help.

One of the downside of my big 3pot 60L brewery was that I didnt get enough brewdays in, as I enjoyed the brewday almost as much as the brew itself..

These days Im more a 5 pints on a saturday while watching some old pony on netflix..

I plan to keep a Lager, a Scottish Heavy on Co2 taps and a nitro tap of porter/ stout so 3 kegs on tap at any one time.. and it will take me an age to work my way through them in 19l kegs which will provide less opportunity for brewdays.

I found a thread that says that beer that has been kept oxygen free will live happily for months in a corny.. how true is this in practice. ?

So my current thinking is buy 2 expensive 9.5L Cornies for the nitro tap , use the King Keg 8L PET kegs for Co2 brew , and hopefully Ill be able to get more7/8 or 9L brewdays in..

whats your collective thoughts?
Valid plan? or pie in the sky? and should I just cut to 19L kegs now as Ill end up there anyhow..

 

[Clarence]

I used to serve most of my beer on draught from Boots 40 pint plastic barrels. My usual procedure was to rack the finished beer from the primary fermenter straight into the barrel with a bit of priming sugar. Once the priming gas was depleted, I'd dispense the beer with CO2 from a small (Hambleton Bard, I think) gas cylinder.
Popular beers didn't last long, because we drank them and we would sometimes finish a barrel at a sitting, but stronger and richer beers would last for many, many months, even up to a year in the barrel without deteriorating. I tended not to put lager in the barrels, though, as I wanted a higher carbonation pressure and I wanted to be able to chill it and so I used bottles. I think lager would do better in a metal keg than in a plastic one.
Two observations. I never had any problems with my Boots barrels. I'd pay attention to the seals and they kept their pressure well. Second, I think of kegged beer as bottled beer. If you'd expect it to keep well in a bottle, there's no reason it should behave any differently in a larger, sealed container.

 

[Sadfield]

Sounds valid enough.

Maintaining multiple kegs for months requires work, cleaning kegs, cleaning lines and taps, balancing gas pressures, etc. So, isn't the free hit on time saving over bottling that they'll have you believe.

 

[Frisp]

I think of kegged beer as bottled beer. If you'd expect it to keep well in a bottle, there's no reason it should behave any differently in a larger, sealed container.

very valid point. I never thought about it like that

 

[Frisp]

Sounds valid enough.

Maintaining multiple kegs for months requires work, cleaning kegs, cleaning lines and taps, balancing gas pressures, etc. So, isn't the free hit on time saving over bottling that they'll have you believe.

I abrolutley hate bottling even with a beer gun.. Although no rinse sanitizers these days may make that less onerous than I found it back in the day ..

 

[Frisp]

is doing 7/8/9L AG brews realistic in a brewzilla / Grainfather ?

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Can't help on longevity in kegs as I always bottle. But I don't see why kegged beer should last for a shorter period than bottled. I often hold 1 or 2 bottles back for consumption later, just to see, and based on that I'd happily keep regular beers for 6 months and stronger beers for a year or more. Not that it happens much apart from these tasters.

(Incidentally, with no rinse sanitiser and a bottling wand to bottle direct from FV, I find bottling to be a bit of a chore but not actually that bad, especially if I play something on my headphones. You might not find it as bad as you remember. Particularly if you thoroughly rinse each bottle immediately after use, and pop a silicon cap (or similar) on top till next use.)

 

[Old Fart At Play]

is doing 7/8/9L AG brews realistic in a brewzilla / Grainfather ?

Don't know about other devices, but quoted minimum batch size for G40 is 10 litres (no special pipework necessary).

 

[Twostage]

I kept (forgot about) some cider in a corny for 5 years. It was fine.

 

[Frisp]

I kept (forgot about) some cider in a corny for 5 years. It was fine.

that fills me with hope

 

[Twostage]

(Incidentally, with no rinse sanitiser and a bottling wand to bottle direct from FV, I find bottling to be a bit of a chore but not actually that bad, especially if I play something on my headphones. You might not find it as bad as you remember. Particularly if you thoroughly rinse each bottle immediately after use, and pop a silicon cap (or similar) on top till next use.)

I set up some stereo speakers to I could bluetooth my mobile to them. I've just adopted the habit of washing bottles and drying them (either oven or in front of the fire) and then sticking them in a swing bin neck down. So they just need a quick dunk in sanitiser on bottling day.

 

[Frisp]

Don't know about other devices, but quoted minimum batch size for G40 is 10 litres (no special pipework necessary).

I suppose 10L Batches and bottle the 2 or 3 L thats left after mini kegging wouldnt be too onerous.

 

[MashBag]

I abrolutley hate bottling even with a beer gun.. Although no rinse sanitizers these days may make that less onerous than I found it back in the day ..

Bottling doesn't have to be a chore, of you plan it well.

 

[MashBag]

I suppose 10L Batches and bottle the 2 or 3 L thats left after mini kegging wouldnt be too onerous.

Or more so surely... as you are setting up for both operations now instead of one?

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

In a past life I had many peoples' dream job of being on a taste panel in a very large brewery . Even with their meticulous attention to detail, there is always some dissolved oxygen in the kegged beer. (They achieved very low levels in parts per billion, I doubt us homebrewers would get near that without bottle conditioning) Part of the tasting panel job involved tasting forced aged beer and 90 day old samples. The forced aged beer is put through many hot cold cycles in a thirty day period.
These were the taste tests that no one on the panel, looked forward to. There's a substantial difference between fresh beer and aged beer. Plus a broached keg will deteriorate more quickly than an unbroached keg .
You'll find that if there's a pub in your area , with a beer that's maybe not as popular in thar pub as it might be, say in a workman's club , there'll be a substantial difference in a freshly broached keg in the workers club, compared to the one that's sitting a couple of weeks. That's why many breweries introduced smaller keg sizes for restaurants or pioneering markets , so that there is a quicker turnaround on the kegs.

 

[Frisp]

Or more so surely... as you are setting up for both operations now instead of one?

I see your logic but as I absolutley hate bottling Id want to keep it to the bare minimum.. i could just about cope with filling half a dozen pet bottles.

In a past life I had many peoples' dream job of being on a taste panel in a very large brewery . Even with their meticulous attention to detail, there is always some dissolved oxygen in the kegged beer. (They achieved very low levels in parts per billion, I doubt us homebrewers would get near that without bottle conditioning) Part of the tasting panel job involved tasting forced aged beer and 90 day old samples. The forced aged beer is put through many hot cold cycles in a thirty day period.
These were the taste tests that no one on the panel, looked forward to. There's a substantial difference between fresh beer and aged beer. Plus a broached keg will deteriorate more quickly than an unbroached keg .
You'll find that if there's a pub in your area , with a beer that's maybe not as popular in thar pub as it might be, say in a workman's club , there'll be a substantial difference in a freshly broached keg in the workers club, compared to the one that's sitting a couple of weeks. That's why many breweries introduced smaller keg sizes for restaurants or pioneering markets , so that there is a quicker turnaround on the kegs.

Frontline experience is worth a thousand opinions in my book.. So the Jury is in, small 10L batches, small 8/9L kegs which are quantaties I can keep up with... bottle condition any excess from the fermenter, once the keg has been filled, and give it away to friends.

Im assuming from your post that bottle conditioned tends to have a longer shelf life than kegged?

 

[Graz]

I've been using 19L kegs for ages, I have 6 of them on rotation when I haven't been lazy on the brewing front. The beer has always been fine, some even get better with age but I do try to keep a shorter turnaround on anything hoppy as the taste and aroma does diminish a bit over time, but still fine to drink.

I also really find kegs much less hassle than bottles. The cleaning side of it really isn't that onerous, I just rinse out the keg when it's done, fill it with hot water + a few spoons of oxy, pump a bit of that through the line / tap, let it sit for an hour then rinse out. All it needs then is good glug of StarSan, a shale and rain off before filling again. Same with the tap/line, just pump a bit of StarSan through and reconnect. The gas side of it I just find it to be set and forget.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

If you’ll drink 19 litres in a reasonable time period then I’d go for that and have two kegs per tap; one on tap and the other conditioning.

I think anyone taking a reasonable amount of care with their brewing and cleaning processes should produce beers that will last for months. It also helps that the beers you’re looking to brew are likely to last quite well, it’s the hoppy ales that deteriorate more quickly.

I currently have an imperial kegged in February, a stout kegged in April and a lager kegged in May - all are good.

 

[Frisp]

If you’ll drink 19 litres in a reasonable time period then I’d go for that and have two kegs per tap; one on tap and the other conditioning.

I think anyone taking a reasonable amount of care with their brewing and cleaning processes should produce beers that will last for months. It also helps that the beers you’re looking to brew are likely to last quite well, it’s the hoppy ales that deteriorate more quickly.

I currently have an imperial kegged in February, a stout kegged in April and a lager kegged in May - all are good.

My issue is the reasonable amount of time thing.. These days im a 2 L on a Saturday kinda drinker, but I want to maximise how many brewdays I can get in in a year, hence the smaller batches, what I want to avoid is buying brew kit and only getting 2 or 3 brewdays a year. Id ratehr make smaller batches more often, if you get my drift.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

My issue is the reasonable amount of time thing.. These days im a 2 L on a Saturday kinda drinker, but I want to maximise how many brewdays I can get in in a year, hence the smaller batches, what I want to avoid is buying brew kit and only getting 2 or 3 brewdays a year. Id ratehr make smaller batches more often, if you get my drift.

Understood. I was thinking about the cost of kegs (very similar for 9 litre and 19 litre) but if your objective is also to brew frequently then 9 litre will obviously work better for you.