Hydrogen Vs BEV cars.

[Rodcx500z]

Toyota now have a car you can refill with hydrogen anywhere you like, Electric is not the way forward and the governments know this it is a stop gap

 

[Larse]

Tell me more about this hydrogen malarkey. Sounds interesting. Can you get it at filling stations?

 

[Rodcx500z]

Here you go https://www.techradar.com/vehicle-t...nd-could-spell-the-end-of-lengthy-ev-charging

 

[Agentgonzo]

The problem with hydrogen is it's hard to store and low energy density.
The energy density (by volume) of liquid/compressed hydrogen is about a quarter of that of petrol.
The efficiency of a fuel cell car is about twice that of an ICE, which leaves you with about half the range for the same volume of fuel. But petrol can just be sloshed into a simple tank in your car and hydrogen canisters require stronger/thicker walls and so you can't store the same volume of hydrogen fuel as your can petrol, further decreasing the range.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Brew_DD2]

Toyota now have a car you can refill with hydrogen anywere you like,

Anywhere you like, except it's not sold anywhere.

 

[MashBag]

It not that its hard to store, it's the flipping high pressures, depending on which "Standard" you use.

An the period table gives us a clue. H¹ one molecule. So it has the propensity to leak.

Google nearest "hydrogen Station near me " and see what happens

 

[Alastair70]

Toyota now have a car you can refill with hydrogen anywere you like,

Sorry Rod, you're wrong on all counts.
"Anywhere you like, as long its London or Sheffield" is probably more correct. (Map of current H-stations attached).
We've been over the environmental arguments for EV's too many times in this thread. I'll just say that no one has provided a satisfactory counter argument to ICE being better than EV from that, or any other perspective.

 

[Clint]

To stabilise the hydrogen they should mix it mostly with petrol.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Rodcx500z said:
Toyota now have a car you can refill with hydrogen anywere you like,

DD2 - Anywhere you like, except it's not sold anywhere.

Sorry Rod, you're wrong on all counts.

Rod meant by using the cartridges he linked to in post #3 -

Toyota's portable hydrogen cartridges look like giant AA batteries – and could spell the end of lengthy EV charging​

https://www.techradar.com/vehicle-t...nd-could-spell-the-end-of-lengthy-ev-charging

 

[Larse]

Here you go https://www.techradar.com/vehicle-t...nd-could-spell-the-end-of-lengthy-ev-charging

So it seems that these hydrogen cartridges are envisioned as being able to charge EVs? That's not going to replace the EV then, just provide a different charging method.

 

[Alastair70]

Rod meant by using the cartridges he linked to in post #3 -

Toyota's portable hydrogen cartridges look like giant AA batteries – and could spell the end of lengthy EV charging​

https://www.techradar.com/vehicle-t...nd-could-spell-the-end-of-lengthy-ev-charging

View attachment 104974

Ahh, I missed that part.
To quote the article "Although just a concept now..." or to put it another way "Toyota now don't currently have a car you can refill with hydrogen anywhere you like"

I apologise to Rod my oversight of the second post, but I am leaving my objection on the table.

 

[Rodcx500z]

So it seems that these hydrogen cartridges are envisioned as being able to charge EVs? That's not going to replace the EV then, just provide a different charging method.

As in as quick as filling an ice

 

[Brew_DD2]

As in as quick as filling an ice

Fast charging is just about there.

 

[MashBag]

I would venture these are ammonia for cracking in a hi tech fuel cell. But that's a guess. But it would certainly be why they are small and light.

 

[Rodcx500z]

You don't need garages you stick it in your car and away you go, when it gets low you swap it like you would a soda stream, and the Hi Lux in the video has a greater range than it's full EV brother with no drop off in range in winter, so in one swoop Toyota have killed the argument about the money and cost of investment needed to build fueling stations, very very clever i like it

 

[Agentgonzo]

it's the flipping high pressures, depending on which "Standard" you use.

An the period table gives us a clue. H¹ one molecule. So it has the propensity to leak.

That's what makes it hard to store

 

[Alastair70]

You don't need garages you stick it in your car and away you go, when it gets low you swap it like you would a soda stream, and the Hi Lux in the video has a greater range than it's full EV brother with no drop off in range in winter, so in one swoop Toyota have killed the argument about the money and cost of investment needed to build fueling stations, very very clever i like it

What’s not to like. Given that’s its likely to be around 5 years away*, assuming scalability and availability problems are overcome, it will have to compete with whatever the current, readily available technologies have evolved into.

I’m being generous here. One of my bests mates adidas work on hydrogen fuel cells as part of his undergrad engineering degrees. We’ve all had our 30yr reunions and it’s still a work in progress.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Not if they move as fast as Musky boy

 

[Larse]

I would venture these are ammonia for cracking in a hi tech fuel cell. But that's a guess. But it would certainly be why they are small and light.

Not that small

Also how much is one of these going to cost to buy and refill? Not insignificant I would think. And of course if it's proprietary than we're going to see Apple Mk II except with fuel.

Meanwhile EVs can be charged for little or nothing if you've solar power.