How to use fermentation stopper.

[Bertiebert]

Hi,

I wonder if anybody could help with a query I have please?

I'm new to winemaking but consider myself to have generally a good understanding of the processes.

2 months ago I harvested the apple tree in our garden and made 20L of apple wine. After fermentation I racked into a 20L carboy with bentonite. Over a few weeks the wine has cleared perfectly leaving the sediment at the bottom as expected. Yesterday I decided I would bottle. Now here's the problem:

to the bottling bucket I added 2.5 crushed campden tabs and 2tsp of Young's wine stabiliser following the label (hydrating in warm water 1/2tsppg).

As soon as the wine went into the bucket it turned very cloudy. In the hope that this would just clear in a few hours I continued to rack until all of the clear wine was in the bottling bucket leaving behind only the sediment.

The resulting bottling bucket of wine is now very very hazy.

I decided to leave with the lid on overnight to ensure clarity returned however this was not to be the case, although it did improve somewhat. In the end I returned it to the carboy as I was not willing to continue with the bottling process until I know it will clear.



Has anyone else come across this issue where the addition of metabisulphite and or Potassium Sorbate have turned clear wine into bin juice? Do we think that left and given time it will clear again?

Nb, the wine was at about 10c at the time of adding to the sulphs and sorbs if that may affect things?

Very annoying as it's wasted a lot of time, risked potential contamination of the wine and means I will have to sanitize all of my bottles again ☹



Any views welcome.

Thanks.

Rob.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Yesterday I decided I would bottle. Now here's the problem:
to the bottling bucket I added 2.5 crushed campden tabs and 2tsp of Young's wine stabiliser following the label (hydrating in warm water 1/2tsppg).
As soon as the wine went into the bucket it turned very cloudy. In the hope that this would just clear in a few hours I continued to rack until all of the clear wine was in the bottling bucket leaving behind only the sediment.
The resulting bottling bucket of wine is now very very hazy.

When i used to make my own wine i racked into a sanitised DJ onto a crushed Campden tablet added the stabiliser (fermentation stopper) and finings gave it a good degassing left it to clear then bottled when it cleared i never had any issues with cloudy wine.

You are probably going to have to give it more time to clear on its own.

 

[Bertiebert]

In hind sight I guess it actually makes sense to use the fermentation stopper at 1st racking in future.......
Thanks for the reply.

 

[MashBag]

I make wine every year. Gravity and time will fix it.

For completeness. I only use potassium metabisulphite, not sodium, after all fermentations and macerations are complete. Nothing else.

Lots of coursely applied additions, only seem to add to the homebrew twang IME

 

[Bertiebert]

Forgot to mention, I intend to back sweeten before bottling, hence the addition of potassium sorbate.

 

[MashBag]

Backsweeten with something unfermentable.

 

[Bertiebert]

Thanks for the suggestion Mashbag. Unfortunately I don't favour the flavour achieved with the non fermentables. I've found Erythriol best but it's still a trade off against sugar.

 

[peterpiper]

Forgot to mention, I intend to back sweeten before bottling, hence the addition of potassium sorbate.

Even if you're not sweetening, adding sorbate ensures (just about), that late fermation of residual sugar won't end up being an issue later.

Sometimes you can get a stuck fermentation, especially with 'home' wines such as rhubarb wine. These can clear beautifully, in cool autumn & winter, then resume fermentation the next summer.

I add sorbate, as soon as I feel fermentation has finished (going by gravity or taste). Rather than at first racking, which tends to be earlier. As (with heat coming from below) I like to get the wine off the bulk of the spent yeast, at a fairly early stage.

 

[Bertiebert]

Even if you're not sweetening, adding sorbate ensures (just about), that late fermation of residual sugar won't end up being an issue later.

Sometimes you can get a stuck fermentation, especially with 'home' wines such as rhubarb wine. These can clear beautifully, in cool autumn & winter, then resume fermentation the next summer.

I add sorbate, as soon as I feel fermentation has finished (going by gravity or taste). Rather than at first racking, which tends to be earlier. As (with heat coming from below) I like to get the wine off the bulk of the spent yeast, at a fairly early stage.

Indeed, this batch only went down to 0.010 so there's some potential for relaunch if left to it's own devices. I purposely left the sorbate until bottling so that as much sugar could be fermented as possible. As chippy tea mentioned above it would probably make sense to add sorbate once fermentation appeared to stop, that way once the one is clear there is nothing else to cloud things up again. Can't be sure now if it was the metabisulfate or the sorbate which is the culprit as they were both added at the same time. Either way I guess I'm gonna have to wait now to see if it clears out again.

 

[Bertiebert]

Just out of curiosity..... Would 12 months bottle conditioning of wine be the same as six months bulk conditioning in a carboy then six months in a bottle? I would think so but then........

 

[MashBag]

Thanks for the suggestion Mashbag. Unfortunately I don't favour the flavour achieved with the non fermentables. I've found Erythriol best but it's still a trade off against sugar.

I agree with you. The after taste can be a 'horrible. Saccharin particularly. Stevia ghastly. Have you tried Sucralose?

 

[MashBag]

Just out of curiosity..... Would 12 months bottle conditioning of wine be the same as six months bulk conditioning in a carboy then six months in a bottle? I would think so but then........

Wine clears best in bulk.

 

[MashBag]

2tsp of Young's wine stabiliser following the label (hydrating in warm water 1/2tsppg).

Just been having a read.
Did you add exactly 2tsp? Level? in a measure? Equal to 10g?
Or 2 heaped like you were popping sugar in your tea?

Reviewing my course notes this sounds like a sorbate overdose.

2 tsps is a high, but very general dose rate. The way to calculate the exact dose is based on the pH of the wine.

 

[Bertiebert]

Just been having a read.
Did you add exactly 2tsp? Level? in a measure? Equal to 10g?
Or 2 heaped like you were popping sugar in your tea?

Reviewing my course notes this sounds like a sorbate overdose.

2 tsps is a high, but very general dose rate. The way to calculate the exact dose is based on the pH of the wine.

Hi, yes it was an exact level measure using a measuring spoon into 20L. The sorbate and crushed campdens were in the sanitised empty bucket, as soon as the syphon started the wine turned cloudy upon contact.
Interesting thoughts regards PH. The wine measures inbetween PH 3-3.5 so I was happy with that...

 

[Bertiebert]

Wine clears best in bulk.

Once the wine is fully cleared, does it make any difference maturing in bulk Vs bottles?

 

[MashBag]

Wine matures best in bulk.

 

[Bertiebert]

Update.
***For those interested and to hopefully save anyone else having this issue.***

Relief!
2.5 weeks on and stored in a very cold garage (it's been down to -9°c) the carboy has cleared down once again. The sorbate/sulphate has fallen down and formed a white carpet on the bottom of the carboy. The wine is nearly crystal clear again .

In my pursuit to find an explanation worthy of satisfying my weary mind I stumbled across a video last night. This might be the answer?....

The guy was talking about the process of back sweetening and suggested that adding sorbate in a high ratio to wine that it can crystallise. Due to my adding the sorbate solution into the bottling bucket first then siphoning onto it meant that the ratio (initially 1:1) completely overpowered the wine thus causing it to crystallise and turn cloudy? The rest of the transfer was doomed from there on in

To my mind it is therefore essential to add sorbate in one of 2 ways:

1, add as soon as fermentation is done but before the clearing process starts. That way, if it does crystallise it'll fall out with the other detritus.

2, add the sorbate solution in small amounts whilst stirring to ensure it is sufficiently dispersed.

Let me know what you think, seems plausible to me.

Video link:
Skip to 10m10s.