How to avoid NEIPA oxidation?

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I'm excited to try it AJA

 

[AJA]

I think this would work perfectly.

If you could spund in your pressure vessel they'd be no need to condition at all.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

If you could spund in your pressure vessel they'd be no need to condition at all.

Ooh!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

This is where i'm at as I only have one fv with a tap. A kviek neipa could work. dry hopping at pitching time they could only be in there for 3-4 days if the temps are up, then time to bottle.

I’d not be surprised if you were disappointed by the aroma, a warm and vigorous fermentation is likely to drive off much of the aroma. On the other hand theory and practice can often be at odds and I’ve never tried this. If you give it a go, good luck and let us know the outcome.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Do you think bottle conditioning a NEIPA would work straight from the pressure vessel, using a boel itap? This is one of the reasons I bought it, and I haven't really used it yet, only to test it.

Yes, not really different from bottling from a keg.

The key is there's carbonation in the beer, so it releases CO2 while bottling that helps protect it during filling, and it foams up to fill the headspace in the bottle so there's no air left in the bottle when you cap it.

I'd definitely recommend spunding in the pressure vessel to get your desired carbonation before bottling.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Great, thanks!

Edit: going to try it both ways, but not with a full batch in case it goes wrong.

 

[An Ankoù]

Sorry, my bad. I thought you’d interpreted AA as Alpha Acids

Well I'm sorry, too, my lad. There's only one AA, thank you very much!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Sorry, my bad. I thought you’d interpreted AA as Alpha Acids

Alcoholics anonymous maybe.
I went to an AA meeting a few years ago I’m not going to let them drunks fix my car

 

[Braumeister]

Ok the neipa is looking great so far.

I’ve been disappointed with previous aroma with 100g or less dry hop. Thankfully 250g does not disappoint. This is with Galaxy and Citra. My 5yo had a smell of the fermentation fridge and with no prompting said it smelt like a fruit basket!

It has been dry hopped for 5 days so far, I was only planning to do it for that long but the fermentation is taking longer than I expected. I think this might end up being 10/11 days dry hopped, hopefully that doesn’t cause any ‘grassy’ flavours.

Reading is 1.016 and estimated FG is 1.014. I want to leave it 2 or 3 days after fermentation finishes as I’ve been getting some diacetyl in my last few beers.

Hopefully it stays this colour! I will post some pictures of the attempted low oxygen keg transfer if I remember to take some.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

So I'm now slightly more informed on the Ascorbic Acid in the mash situation.

The reason Genus Brewing put it in their mash is to reduce free radicals, which join with certain components of the beer and cause 'reactive oxygen species' which spoil the beer. So by reducing the free radicals you are reducing some of the chance of damage. Which in theory means you may be able to use a larger percentage of flaked grains. I guess this is why you get told to drink green tea etc, as it has anti-oxidants and is a free radical buster

When the boil de-natures the Ascorbic Acid after the mash, it's already done it's work.

Obviously a multi-layered approach would be best though - the ascorbic won't help later on in the brewing process if you keep opening the lid etc.

I knew there was a reason it was working but I didn't know why. Now I do!

I'm going to keep doing what works for me, as the closed transfers help with the latter end of the brew so I can make a pretty decent NEIPA now.

 

[Agentgonzo]

The reason Genus Brewing put it in their mash is to reduce free radicals, which join with certain components of the beer and cause 'reactive oxygen species' which spoil the beer.

Is there any more detail on this? Yes, those words make sense, but I'm always skeptical of pseudo-science (not saying that's what it is in this case). Especially when you get phrases like "certain components" that could literally mean anything. (though having said that, the answer may very well go over my head as it's been a long time since I did A-Level Chemistry).

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I imagine this is doing the same job as mash hopping where you use the alpha acids in the hops to bind with metal ions (that are pro oxidative) before they bind with oxygen and carry it into the finished beer.

If the metal ion has bonded with alpha acid there are no bonding sites left for oxygen to bind to.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Is there any more detail on this? Yes, those words make sense, but I'm always skeptical of pseudo-science (not saying that's what it is in this case). Especially when you get phrases like "certain components" that could literally mean anything. (though having said that, the answer may very well go over my head as it's been a long time since I did A-Level Chemistry).

I just put it in my own words AG. There were more specific words but I generalised it.

From bruker.com

Oxidative staling of beer occurs by a free radical process. During storage, even trace amounts of transition metals such as iron or copper will catalyze the conversion of molecular oxygen to what are known as "reactive oxygen species" (ROS). One such ROS is the hydroxl free radical which rapidly oxidizes components of the beer to free radicals. Beer derived free radicals react further, creating a chain reaction that results in carbonyl end products such as aldehydes and ketones, giving beer a "cardboard like" flavor.

Antioxidants in beer help them to resist free radical oxidation and although oxidation is inevitable over time, it can be minimized by optimizing brewing operations and storage conditions to provide maximum antioxidant content in packaged beer.

And this from brewersjournal

Generation of ROS

Many of the reactions recognised to cause staling can be attributed to the action of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in beer. Molecular oxygen is relatively unreactive in its ground state and so must first be activated to form the ROS responsible for these reactions.

This activation is catalysed by the transition metals Iron and Copper and is an example of a Redox reaction. The amount of ROS generated is dependent on the level of oxygen in the beer, the storage temperature, as well as the availability of Iron and Copper ions to catalyse the reaction (Vanderhaegen, 2006).

Once generated ROS can go on to react with the many organic molecules present in beer including; alcohols, higher alcohols, hop bitter acids, polyphenols, amino acids and lipids. These oxidative changes result in many of the sensory changes seen during beer aging (Vanderhaegen, 2006).

 

[Agentgonzo]

Awesome! That's @Tess Tickle's Brewery !

 

[Braumeister]

Sure it can’t hurt to add ascorbic acid. I didn’t use it and did a type of closed transfer with gravity using an SS brewtech Fv to purged keg and no issues at all with oxidation, so I’ll do that process again. Another neipa planned in a couple of brews time. The Greg Hughes recipe was very good.