How low can I go

[rpt]

The fermentation in my FV has stopped now but I won't get chance to bottle until Monday night. Should I move the FV into the cold garage to help the yeast settle out? How cold is OK? I don't think it's freezing in there but it's certainly fridge temperature. (Although the weather is set to be a little milder for the next few days).

 

[PD]

no more than 14 days in the fermenting vessel on the trub unless you want to risk off flavours and such. 10 days is about right. Move it to somewhere COOL then not freezing and it will be ok for a week before it will need bottling / kegging

 

[Ceejay]

How long has it been in the FV? Ideally it wants 2 to 3 weeks before you bottle to give the yeast a chance to clean up some diacetyl and higher alcohols. You don't really need to cool it before bottling; if you can, move the FV to where you are going to be bottling to give all the yeast and trub chance to settle out naturally, 2 days before (On Saturday I guess). That way, you won't need to move it on the day and risk disturbing the trub.

You're going to have to bottle condition at room temperature anyway, so I don't reckon crash cooling is the way to go really. Keep it simple :thumb:

 

[PD]

quote...

You're going to have to bottle condition at room temperature anyway


I bottled my wherry yesterday in the garage air temps were 0C.....hardly room temperature unless your an Eskimo...

 

[graysalchemy]

Low is fine for settling out the beer prior to bottling/ kegging as it will aid the yeast dropping clear. Even if you get a touch of frost it is unlikely that the beer will freeze unless it drops well into the minus region. If you are worried that it is getting too cold take it off the floor and wrap in a duvet or sleeping bag. :thumb:

However as Ceejay says it needs to be left at ferm temp for about 3 -4 days after fermentation has completed to allow the yeast to metabolise some of the unwanted by products of fermentation. Also as PD says get it of the yeast I usually drop into a clean sterilised fv after fermentation to get it off the dead yeast. Dead yeast will go decay and produce meaty and yeasty flavours, however this may take longer than you intend to leave it but certainly does occour.

 

[rpt]

So it needs 2-3 weeks but no more than 14 days!

It's been in the FV for 3 weeks now. After the first 2 or so it was stuck at about 1016 so last Saturday I pitched some more yeast. On Tuesday it was down to 1014 but I do need to check it again tonight.

There seem to be so many conflicting opinions about whether sitting on the trub is bad and whether secondary fermentation is good or bad.

 

[LeedsBrewer]

:lol: Yep, it can be confusing. I tend to do as PD said, let it ferment for a week then start take an SG reading, I then take another reading on day 9 and if it hasn't changed i'll transfer it off the trub and into a second fv. This ensures a clearer beer (less sediment transfer). I put the second fv in a cold location (my garage) for 2 or 3 days to let the yeast clear and then transfer the bucket to the bottling location and let it sit for a few hours to settle down. Then bottle away. :thumb:

 

[rpt]

So do you bottle prime? I have a second FV with a little bottler but if I transfer to that now then can I batch prime when I bottle on Monday? I won't be able to stir the sugar in without disturbing all the sediment (although there will obviously be less than in the primary FV).

 

[Ceejay]

"There seem to be so many conflicting opinions about whether sitting on the trub is bad and whether secondary fermentation is good or bad."

You're right there! Sorry I gave such conflicting information. This is kind of the problem with the internet; there are many opinions, all of which can be correct, depending on your setup, what you brew, how bothered you are, why you're brewing etc etc.

I definitely agree that you don't want to leave beer on the yeast too long. The question is how long is too long? For a home brewer, I personally don't think 4 weeks is outrageous, unless you're sitting at like 25C or something. As home brewers, on a standard 5 gallon system, we don't have the hydrostatic pressure on the yeast that commercial breweries do, because of the volume so the yeast isn't as prone to autolysis. I believe that's where the "must get it off the trub asap" thing came about. That's my take on it, anyway.

What I do when bottling:

I have a bottling bucket, which is just a fermenting bucket with a tap & little bottler attached. I mix up a sugar solution according to a priming calculator, boiled for 15 minutes to sanitise it. I cool it and carefully pour the it into the bottom of the bottling bucket. Then it's just a case of carefully siphoning your beer from the FV into the bottling bucket, making sure it doesn't all splash about. This will mostly mix the beer in with the priming solution. I usually give it a very gentle stir with a sanitised spoon to make sure it's mixed properly. Then fill up your sanitised bottles :thumb:

Again, that's only what I do, but it's simple and works well.

 

[graysalchemy]

The question is how long is too long? For a home brewer, I personally don't think 4 weeks is outrageous

From my experience CJ you are more likely to get an infection with that length of time than the effects of autolysis especially if you have left the beer in th esame fv all that time.

I say 2 -21/2 weeks from brew day to bottling especially with session abv beers. The only time I age anything in bulk is with beers over 8.5%

 

[LeedsBrewer]

I clean out the first fv and use that to batch prime. I still haven't got round to fitting a tap on it yet so I use a siphon with the bottling stick on the end of the siphon.

 

[Ceejay]

The question is how long is too long? For a home brewer, I personally don't think 4 weeks is outrageous

From my experience CJ you are more likely to get an infection with that length of time than the effects of autolysis especially if you have left the beer in th esame fv all that time.

I say 2 -21/2 weeks from brew day to bottling especially with session abv beers. The only time I age anything in bulk is with beers over 8.5%

Oh yes; I do agree with that, and I'm definitely not saying that you should keep your beer in the FV for 4 weeks. I pretty much always bottle my beer on or around the 14th day. What I'm kind of saying is that I wouldn't panic if something came up and I wasn't able to bottle until a week or so after that. Although, there's not much that comes between me and brewing! :mrgreen:

 

[wilsoa1111]

i suppose some peoples primarys are a bit more suseptable to infection than others- think we all saw that pic of what happened in the brew fridge :rofl:
mine being under airlock and completely sealed i like to think their a bit safer- but personally my beer never gets a chance to have much of a rest-like to keep productive-esp now ive got the hop tea method (at bottling) down

 

[rpt]

I clean out the first fv and use that to batch prime. I still haven't got round to fitting a tap on it yet so I use a siphon with the bottling stick on the end of the siphon.

So you ferment in FV1. Syphon into FV2 and let it stand for a few days in the cold. Then just before bottling you put the priming solution in FV1 and syphon from FV2 into FV1 before bottling. Is that right?

For future brews I may do something similar. For me FV1 is 33L and FV2 is 23L with the little bottler. I have just acquired a fridge that will fit FV2 but not FV1. So I will ferment in FV2, transfer to FV1 (which has an airlock) to settle in the cold and then transfer back to FV2 for bottling. Having the tap on the FV in the fridge will also make it easy to take a sample and check the SG.

 

[rpt]

I mix up a sugar solution according to a priming calculator, boiled for 15 minutes to sanitise it.

Is it really necessary to boil for 15 minutes? Is not mixing with boiling water from the kettle not enough?

 

[Ceejay]

I mix up a sugar solution according to a priming calculator, boiled for 15 minutes to sanitise it.

Is it really necessary to boil for 15 minutes? Is not mixing with boiling water from the kettle not enough?

Most protozoans etc are destroyed after 10 mins at pasteurisation temps (60C), but I want to be satisfied that I've killed pretty much everything I'm able to, so I make sure I get it to a rolling boil, same as when I'm boiling wort. There are still some cysts and things that can survive in boiling water but we don't worry about those too much. It also makes sure the vessel in which the water is boiling is sanitised too, with the steam.

It may be that I'm being a bit OCD about it, but I'd rather that than risk infecting an entire batch of beer.

 

[LeedsBrewer]

So you ferment in FV1. Syphon into FV2 and let it stand for a few days in the cold. Then just before bottling you put the priming solution in FV1 and syphon from FV2 into FV1 before bottling. Is that right?

:thumb: Works well for me so far. I've heard people say that it should be a 123 rule - as in 1 week in primary, 2 in secondary and 3 in bottle. I've never done this (only ever have about 3 days in secondary) and my beers have been decent so far. However, my current batch has been in the secondary for a week and will probably remain there for another week until I have a free fv for batch priming. My other fv has TC in it at the moment so am waiting for that to finish before moving it to its secondary.

Will be interesting to see if there is any noticable difference.

I also boil my priming sugar for around 10 mins.

 

[periolus]

I haven't ever left in 2ry prior to bottling, but plan on starting with the next batch.

I have read (I think in Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels) that optimum time in 2ry is OG/2 = number of days, but it could be (OG - FG) / 2 = number of days. I can't remember!