How hard is a kit lager?

[TheKench]

Hello all,

I do love a pint of ale, and currently have a wherry on the go which I am loving. My brother is visiting in the summer and he is a staunch lager drinker. I'm thinking of doing a kit in preparation for his visit but I have a few questions:

1) will it be much more difficult than the wherry was? I'm only a beginner...
2) do I need any extra kit?
3) how long is it likely to take to condition to its best? (so I know when to start)
4) can anyone recommend any good kits?

Cheers!

 

[RobWalker]

I did the coopers cerveza and was mightily impressed, very easy and very clean tasting. The difficulty comes in when you get a kit with a real lager yeast, as they need temperature controlled fermentation and storing. Are you kegging or bottling? With a basic keg you can only get enough carbonation for an ale, lagers are better in bottles - I'm pretty happy with keg carbonation though.

They need a month or two to condition, after that you're good to go! To be honest though, if you like ale, you'll probably be nipping into it sooner

 

[TheKench]

Wow, quick response! I guess temperature control could be an issue for me if lager is more sensitive... I have an indoor cupboard which sits nicely at 18-22 and a garage - nothing more sophisticated than that! What sort of temperature ranges do lagers need?

 

[calumscott]

Kit lagers are nearly all brewed (or at least supplied) with ale yeasts, some manufacturers put a little more effort in and get a strain that doesn't make your lager to "aley" but in truth they are designed to be brewed by you and me without the kit/space/willing/time to brew a true lager with a lager yeast at carefully controlled fermentation temperatures and then lager at a really cold temp for months...

What people seem to be chatting about currently are the Coopers Cerveza and the Better Brew Lager. Better Brew claim to have spent a bit more cash on their hopped extract because they save on the packaging - they also claim to use a strain of (still ale) yeast suitable for brewing lager at room temperature.

I've done two Youngs Harvest Pilsner kits so far and to be honest they are budget but the resulting product is "not bad" and frankly 5 times better than C£$%*berg and 10 times better than C@(£ing...

...I would go with either the Coopers or the Better Brew given the reviews, maybe substitute extra light DME for the sugar if you want a bit more body to it and ferement it in a nice cool corner of your garage if you have the time to leave it. You say summer though...

...in which case sort yourself out with a brewing fridge, go with proper lager yeast and a cool ferment, then a good while months lagering at zero degrees or thereabout. Then get it bottled and leave to condition and carbonate...

...shoud be ready for the next summer we get which will probably be around 2017... :lol:

 

[RobWalker]

most need to be held at 3 seperate temperatures constantly at different points, it's a big effort so you need the kit - but kit lagers with ale yeast generally come out quite well!

 

[TheKench]

Thanks for the replies chaps. I am getting the feeling that I either need a really good cooling system (not going to happen) or a really cold spell (can't guarantee it) or I end up with a lager that is not bad but still unlikely to convert a lager drinker to homebrew. I think i'll try and make some decent blonde ales and hope he gets on with them!

Save the pilsner for when I have more time, experience and cash!

 

[pittsy]

Thanks for the replies chaps. I am getting the feeling that I either need a really good cooling system (not going to happen) or a really cold spell (can't guarantee it) or I end up with a lager that is not bad but still unlikely to convert a lager drinker to homebrew. I think i'll try and make some decent blonde ales and hope he gets on with them!

Save the pilsner for when I have more time, experience and cash!

kit lager are not lagered they are just brewed same as all kit brews , i say go for it , all grain lagers will require a lager yeast (a yeast that ferments at lower temps around 15c ish) then you lager brew before bottling for a month starting at 7c ish down to 1c ish , kits do not need to do this as its an ale yeast

 

[calumscott]

Thanks for the replies chaps. I am getting the feeling that I either need a really good cooling system (not going to happen) or a really cold spell (can't guarantee it) or I end up with a lager that is not bad but still unlikely to convert a lager drinker to homebrew. I think i'll try and make some decent blonde ales and hope he gets on with them!

Save the pilsner for when I have more time, experience and cash!

I wouldn't say that at all - seriously I've done two of the cheapo youngs harvest pilsners and they are fizzy, lagery, tasty, but a wee bit beery because a) they really are cheap and b) they're fermented with a really generic ale yeast and c) they're fermented at ale yeast temps. It really is better than the cr@p you get in cans from the supermarket and the standard fare you get on draft in pubs.

My guess is (and I had a sample of my latest Better Brew Pils last night which seems to confirm) that if you go for a slightly better kit to start with you get better hopped malt extract and a more suitable yeast which should make something that is *way* superior to the mainstream.

Give it a punt - what you got to lose?

 

[anthonyUK]

I would make a light or pale ale, something like a Linthewaite Light and tell him this is what a craft beer tastes like.
There has been a few articles in the press recently e.g. http://www.metro.co.uk/lifestyle/892326 ... n-to-lager
so a decent pint can be had even to those who only drink what they think is lager. It isn't a true lager at all really.
It might actually change his opinion.

I have also made the Coopers 'lager' which again isn't a true lager but a light beer brewed with an ale yeast but it was very nice. I made mine with 100% malt so it was a bit less largery than most lager drinkers would like but if made with the brew enhancer as recommended would be pretty close to a premium bottled lager IMHO.

 

[kentmark]

I did a youngs ubrew single can kit lager as my first foray into home brewing. Very straightforward, just followed the instructions. I think the end result was a really nice drink (I am usually a bitter man, but can't complain when the kit is bought for me!), I would describe it as halfway between a lager and a light ale (like a whitstable bay).

HTH

 

[gredawarha]

I have done many Coopers lager which can be done at "room" temperature and is nice although does not quite have the crispness that you get with lager.

I have also done several coopers European lager which have been great. My method (as I dont have a fridge or other cooling method was to submerge the FV in water and then added ice. I then have two water bottles which I rotate between the water bath and the freezer, rotating once every morning and evening.

I am very please with the results, you can read more about what I learned here:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17471

I have read a lot of comments that the firs 48 hours are the most important for temperature control so for my latest Euro I have added ice for the first 48 hours but have not bothered with the bottles. SImply as a test really.

Coopers recommend that you should leave it in the bottle conditioning for 12 weeks (note I conditioned mine at room temp), but I have never managed to get to 12 weeks without drinking them :drink:

I have had them as early as 4 weeks but try to leave longer. In my experience they create more sediment and it seems a bit loser so be careful with your bottles.

For your info I used:

Coopers Euro
500g Brewing sugar
500g Extra light dry malt

Bottles with Coopers drops (although I have now moved to sugar cubes to reduce cost)

Hope this helps.

 

[PaulCa]

I did a Young's Lager as my first kit+kilo. It wasn't bad for a first attempt, had a weird taste to it that stayed even when I found a bottled which had aged for 9 weeks.

The second kit+kilo I did was a Coopers Lager, which had a sharp sugary tang on it which was still present after conditioning for 6 weeks.

For a 'real' lager attempt:
1Kg Light DME
200g Corn Sugar
15g Saaz (60min)
15g Saaz (5min)
Mauribrew Lager Yeast
Pinch of YeastVit
1/2 a Protofloc tablet

I recently put the brew into 2 5litre plastic Demijohns and put them into my Magner's Beer fridge on the warmest setting, which gave me 12*C. It sat in there for 10 days, bubbling slowly. When the bubbles started to reduce, I removed it from the fridge. What I didn't expect was it went ballistic, by the time I knew what was happening it was the next morning and both airlocks where full of foam. I didn't bother installing blow offs I just let it volcano merrily for the next 12 hours when it abruptly stopped and calmed down.

I'm told this is to be expected as the lager at 12C holds a lot more CO2 than at 20C room temp. Also any remaining fermentation will take place rapidly with lager yeast. So you have the degassing of the CO2 + a rapid final ferment.

This 'rest' at room temp is meant to give the yeast the ability to clean up acetyl which needs the beer to be warmer than a normal lager ferment temp.

My second pair of demi's are arriving today and it will be transferred into those (once sanitized) and put back into the fridge on the HIGH setting which delivers about 2C. Just need to monitor it so it doesn't freeze.... for about 4 weeks. Then primed, bottled, carbed at room temp for 3 weeks and finally cooled back to 2C to clear again - chill haze.... another week. Start till end, about 10-12 weeks!

If... and it's a big IF... it tastes good, then I may invest in a full under-counter fridge from a second hand store and go for 5 gallon batches of lager. If it doesn't taste much different to an ale, I'll not bother with lager yeast again. Still might invest in the fridge to keep my initial ale ferment temps at 17C and keep away the tangy taste that results from high initial temps.