How does a Co2 Injector system work? And a filtering question.

[GlentoranMark]

I was given a basic barrel along with a Youngs lager kit a couple of months ago. I brewed and bottled some and transferred the rest to the barrel. I primed it and left it a couple of weeks but when I checked it there was no fizz and it's leaking gas somewhere. I left it out my back and forgot about it.

As you can see, it's not in the best of condition but I think the beer should still be fine. Even if it isn't it could still be a useful experiment for my next points.

I didn't know you could buy spares for these until a few days ago so I can probably fix my air leak and fix the barrel. I'm thinking about re-filtering the beer into a bucket, cleaning out the barrel, fix the leaks and putting the lager back.

I could re-prime the beer but I've just noticed you can buy a Co2 Injector system for around £15 (this shop is local to me) but how does it work? Is it like a Soda Stream? How many cartridges will I need to fizz this barrel? How does this differ to kegging your beer? Can I bottle this fizzed beer out of the barrel?

Also, next step up is proper filtering my beer. I've read that you can buy a 1 micron filter that gets rid of the yeast but keep most of the flavour but where can you buy these filters?

I'm taking small steps each week and learning a lot thanks to the forum.

 

[emptybee]

Hi Glentoran Mark, I use a King Keg with CO2 injector but to be honest the CO2 injection doesn't really carbonate the beer as it is injected through the top. It's mainly for pushing the beer out through the top tap to prevent sediment coming out. I think you really need a Corny keg in order to force carbonation due to the pressures involved and the way they allow you to connect the CO2 up backwards so it bubbles through the beer. I don't have a Corny so this is just what I picked up from researching pretty much the same thing as you are.

You could probably just add some more priming sugar to the keg once it is fixed. Remember to replace the o-ring in the lid and use vaseline liberally on the lid seal and the tap seal as well as the threads on the lid. You also need to make sure the lids are as tight as you can possibly get them by hand.

Just a thought though, as your tap is at the bottom and you won't need to force the beer out, could you fix a bit of pipe to the inside of the lid that will send the CO2 down through the beer? I can't do this in my top tap King Keg as will need to add more CO2 as I drink it and it would run the risk of stirring up the sediment each time.

 

[GlentoranMark]

Hi Glentoran Mark, I use a King Keg with CO2 injector but to be honest the CO2 injection doesn't really carbonate the beer as it is injected through the top. It's mainly for pushing the beer out through the top tap to prevent sediment coming out. I think you really need a Corny keg in order to force carbonation due to the pressures involved and the way they allow you to connect the CO2 up backwards so it bubbles through the beer. I don't have a Corny so this is just what I picked up from researching pretty much the same thing as you are.

You could probably just add some more priming sugar to the keg once it is fixed. Remember to replace the o-ring in the lid and use vaseline liberally on the lid seal and the tap seal as well as the threads on the lid. You also need to make sure the lids are as tight as you can possibly get them by hand.

Just a thought though, as your tap is at the bottom and you won't need to force the beer out, could you fix a bit of pipe to the inside of the lid that will send the CO2 down through the beer? I can't do this in my top tap King Keg as will need to add more CO2 as I drink it and it would run the risk of stirring up the sediment each time.

Thanks for the reply Emptybee, I've brewed a few beers over many years but I'm still very much a beginner to all of this.

I sort of understand how this works but didn't know about it until a day or so ago.

What if I inject upside down or shake the keg vigorously after injection? I'd be a bit worried about the pressures involved especially with me in close proximity but I suspect this whole system is built so nobody is killed in the process :-o

Have you tried bottling any of your beer after it has been injected? Does it hold the gas properly? Thanks for the vaseline tip BTW.

I've found useful information here: http://www.thebrewshop.com/contents/en-uk/d79.html

I'm going to buy the cap and Co2 cartridges linked above tomorrow and give it a go. I'd love to go the whole hog and buy the Corneleus system but that's beyond my expertise (and more importantly) budget atm.

What about filtering? I don't mind the yeasty taste of homebrew but it can be overpowering for my mates. I'd like to give them a proper clear pint.

I found a 1 micron filter for £4.99 and a filter housing for £9.99. Will these do the job? I'd like to find a local supplier but if I know what I need I could probably find them cheaper on Amazon or Ebay.

 

[emptybee]

I can't comment on filtering but I've found the first few pints from a keg are a little cloudy (not with the top tap king keg obviously) but then it clears up and shouldn't be a problem. I'm not au fait with the science behind carbonation but upside down may work. I wouldn't shake the beer though. Maybe add a couple of CO2 capsules to the keg over the course of 2 weeks? There should be an over pressure valve on the keg (bit of rubber around a boss with a hole in it) that will stop anything exploding. Haven't tried bottling after kegging either I'm afraid.

Let me know how you get on.

 

[baggybill]

Hi mate,

Be careful what you splash your cash on here. You need to do a bit more reading and asking a lot more questions here before you waste some hard earned money.

Carbonation
It's nothing like a soda stream. You can't force carb in a plastic pressure barrel. It will only go up to about ~10psi and you need 20+ psi for a chance of force carbonation. The capsules you buy are to keep the oxygen/air out and pressure on the brew for serving. You can force carb in 2 litre PET bottles but that's a whole other story (see YouTube vids).

For now though, if I were you, I would stick with sugar priming to carb your beer in the PB (once repaired).

Filtering
1 micron will filter the 80-90% of the yeast but you need a lot more kit for that kind of set-up. For a start, I don't think you'll be able to gravity feed a cloudy beer through it and set-up's I've seen do it with two Cornies + gas. It may be possible to gravity feed through a 5 micron then a 1 micron but jeez, that's a whole world of pain (sanitisation, air exposure of your brew, time involved etc.)

Again, if I were you, I'd look at my basic technique to get better tasting beer. Try two weeks in your primary fv, try adding beer fining, cold crashing etc. these will all drop out a lot more yeast/solids.

Beer in the garden
I think that'll be a goner mate. All kinds of air born and rainwater nasties could have penetrated by now. If not, that tap is going to take some careful cleaning sterilizing before you let any out.

Personally, I would write it off, get the new parts for the keg, a big tub of oxy cleaner, kitchen scrubbing brush, some sanitizer, get it minted and start over.

Hope this helps, just trying to save you some money for now and steer you in a better direction :thumb:

 

[emptybee]

I kegged a wherry kit a few weeks ago now and as an experiment I decided to try and make a clearer beer by not priming the king keg first. I racked it into the keg and added CO2 from one of the small capsules the. Left it for a week inside to let any remaining conditioning happen as normal. I then put it outside and left it in a car board box for a week. On Friday I added another blast of CO2.

Just bought it in and tried a pint and it was perfectly carbonated (for an ale) and tastes amazing. Going to have another when my girlfriend gets back but really happy with how it turned out! Will try and post a photo if I can work out how.

 

[emptybee]

Its clearer and lighter than it appears in the photos. They don't do it justice. Also look at that head! :)

 

[baggybill]

Aw man... you've made me thirsty now. Looks great :drink:

 

[GlentoranMark]

I now understand the CO2 is used to push the beer out of the barrel and keep oxygen out but Emptybee done what I originally thought the way it worked like the Ibrew Tap a Draft system and it turned out OK. Did you shake the barrel at all Emptybee?

Baggybill, I was given the barrel and done a basic lager kit that I was also given so it was no great loss. I didn't know you could buy parts for these as the tap snapped off when I went to pour my first taste of the lager (which had no fizz). Seals were probably rotten and that's how the pressure escaped but the barrel is in good shape otherwise. I'll buy a new tap and the CO2 system on my next visit to my homebrew shop after I get another brew on the go.

Filtering was a side question as I thought the barrel carbonated the beer, I now understand it's a bit more complicated than this but maybe something I'll come back to in the future.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Hi mate,

Be careful what you splash your cash on here. You need to do a bit more reading and asking a lot more questions here before you waste some hard earned money.

Carbonation
It's nothing like a soda stream. You can't force carb in a plastic pressure barrel. It will only go up to about ~10psi and you need 20+ psi for a chance of force carbonation. The capsules you buy are to keep the oxygen/air out and pressure on the brew for serving. You can force carb in 2 litre PET bottles but that's a whole other story (see YouTube vids).

For now though, if I were you, I would stick with sugar priming to carb your beer in the PB (once repaired).

Filtering
1 micron will filter the 80-90% of the yeast but you need a lot more kit for that kind of set-up. For a start, I don't think you'll be able to gravity feed a cloudy beer through it and set-up's I've seen do it with two Cornies + gas. It may be possible to gravity feed through a 5 micron then a 1 micron but jeez, that's a whole world of pain (sanitisation, air exposure of your brew, time involved etc.)

Again, if I were you, I'd look at my basic technique to get better tasting beer. Try two weeks in your primary fv, try adding beer fining, cold crashing etc. these will all drop out a lot more yeast/solids.

Beer in the garden
I think that'll be a goner mate. All kinds of air born and rainwater nasties could have penetrated by now. If not, that tap is going to take some careful cleaning sterilizing before you let any out.

Personally, I would write it off, get the new parts for the keg, a big tub of oxy cleaner, kitchen scrubbing brush, some sanitizer, get it minted and start over.

Hope this helps, just trying to save you some money for now and steer you in a better direction :thumb:

 

[emptybee]

I didn't shake the keg at all. The carbonation is spot on for an ale but I don't think this would be any use for a lager. I bottle my lager in 500ml Coopers PET bottles with carbonation drops as it carbonates a lot better than it would every do in a keg.