How do I lower a Recipe ABV without losing the character of a beer ?

[Frisp]

I Loooovvve the taste of beer, what I dont like are highish ABV beers that reduce the amount of beer I can neck in a session. I used to drink my bodyweight of Scottish 60/- which has an abv about 3.5%

So what im looking to do is drop recipes down to under 4% and nearer to 3% if I can . And No im not looking to go to 9ointles levels of alcohol !!

However I cant help think that messing with a 5% lager or a 6% Stout to get it down to under 4% is going to affect the body, mouthfeel and character of a beer..
I apreciate mashing higher temps may help choke the fermentable sugars a tad and throwing in a bit of oats could help mouth feel .

But whats the best way to keep the character of the beer while reducing the ABV?

1 just allow Brewfather to scale keep the % share of each grain the same and reduce the overall weight of all grains
or
2 reduce the % of big base fermentable malts and keep the flavour grains at their original levels..

Hops should stay largely at their original IBU levels regardles of ABV ( I think)

 

[Sadfield]

Munich malt, adds maltiness and body. Drop the overall OG and replace some pale malt with it.

https://www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk/our-malts/munich-malt/

 

[Frisp]

Munich malt, adds maltiness and body. Drop the overall OG and replace some pale malt with it.

https://www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk/our-malts/munich-malt/

see what you mean.. had a play on Brewfather , on a test/ play/ experiment stout recipe.. reducing the 2.6kg marris of otter by 300g and replacing it with 300g of Munich changed it from 4.1 to 3.7%

 

[RichK]

You can reduce the base malt a bit then mash warmer - say 70c & use a less attenuative yeast eg MJ M15 or S-33
It's all a bit of a balancing act though.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I would go with option 2. Keep flavour malts the same and reduce base malt.

Then a combination of what's been said above. Consider replacing the some of the base malt with melaboidin, Munich, biscuit etc to boost the maltiness a little to compensate. Then mash a bit warmer, and use a lower attenuating yeast - good suggestion Rich

 

[DocAnna]

I would go with option 2. Keep flavour malts the same and reduce base malt.

Then a combination of what's been said above. Consider replacing the some of the base malt with melaboidin, Munich, biscuit etc to boost the maltiness a little to compensate. Then mash a bit warmer, and use a lower attenuating yeast - good suggestion Rich

At the risk of a +1 type post. At the simplest level go with the same recipe with the base malt reduced about 20% and use a maltotriose negative yeast eg. Lallemand Windsor. The amount of maltotriose in your wort will vary with mash temperature, so if you do mash warmer then you can reduce the base malt by a bit more.

 

[foxy]

I Loooovvve the taste of beer, what I dont like are highish ABV beers that reduce the amount of beer I can neck in a session. I used to drink my bodyweight of Scottish 60/- which has an abv about 3.5%

So what im looking to do is drop recipes down to under 4% and nearer to 3% if I can . And No im not looking to go to 9ointles levels of alcohol !!

However I cant help think that messing with a 5% lager or a 6% Stout to get it down to under 4% is going to affect the body, mouthfeel and character of a beer..
I apreciate mashing higher temps may help choke the fermentable sugars a tad and throwing in a bit of oats could help mouth feel .

But whats the best way to keep the character of the beer while reducing the ABV?

1 just allow Brewfather to scale keep the % share of each grain the same and reduce the overall weight of all grains
or
2 reduce the % of big base fermentable malts and keep the flavour grains at their original levels..

Hops should stay largely at their original IBU levels regardles of ABV ( I think)

The lower the ABV then better to go lower on the IBU. What you do and not do depends on the beer you brew, I like some Munich in my bitter for adding colour and for balancing out the hops and malt, malt in the mouth with a hop bitterness to finish.
You already know the higher temperature will reduce the fermentable sugar in your brew so dial back the base malt and if using Munich use it sparingly as both light and dark have their own diastatic power.
A low-ABV stout? Don't even go there, you will never achieve the body and probably not be able to drink it, I had a 2% ABV stout at Brooklyn Brewery, and didn't get past a couple of sips.

 

[Frisp]

A low-ABV stout? Don't even go there, you will never achieve the body and probably not be able to drink it, I had a 2% ABV stout at Brooklyn Brewery, and didn't get past a couple of sips.

Oh heck Id be looking at getting only slightly under 4 on a stout.. 3.8 /3.9 mibbie.. going too low will rip the soul out of it..

Im just looking to be able to get a couple of extra pints in me before endex if you get my drift

I have a 4.3 Murphys clone recipe, which is aparently " cahonnes de perros' that calls for 6.4% cane sugar... just dumping the cane sugar will drop me to 3.7. The grainbill remains the same so In theory serving that on Nitro Id be able to drown myself in it.. in reality Id probably add a wee bit of DME to replace some of the sugar and bring it in at 3.8/ 3.9

Im probably going to spend a lot of time perfecting some kind of 3.5% dark Scottish 60/70 shilling type beer and a 4% gluggable lager recipe as my session beers on tap.

And then do small batch higher abv brews for the occasional " tasty " bottle beer

 

[foxy]

Oh heck Id be looking at getting only slightly under 4 on a stout.. 3.8 /3.9 mibbie.. going too low will rip the soul out of it..

Im just looking to be able to get a couple of extra pints in me before endex if you get my drift

I have a 4.3 Murphys clone recipe, which is aparently " cahonnes de perros' that calls for 6.4% cane sugar... just dumping the cane sugar will drop me to 3.7. The grainbill remains the same so In theory serving that on Nitro Id be able to drown myself in it.. in reality Id probably add a wee bit of DME to replace some of the sugar and bring it in at 3.8/ 3.9

Im probably going to spend a lot of time perfecting some kind of 3.5% dark Scottish 60/70 shilling type beer and a 4% gluggable lager recipe as my session beers on tap.

And then do small batch higher abv brews for the occasional " tasty " bottle beer

I couldn't go below 4.5 ABV on a stout but I, like you if I am going to have a drink I want to drink plenty. Lager is not to my taste but a 3.5-3.8 ABV bitter is my session beer.

 

[Frisp]

I couldn't go below 4.5 ABV on a stout but I, like you if I am going to have a drink I want to drink plenty. Lager is not to my taste but a 3.5-3.8 ABV bitter is my session beer.

I think with brewing its all a big experiment to dial in on a recipe that becomes your go to brew... Im not a fan of big and hoppy as I grew up on 60/- which has almost no hop to it.. If I can perfect a malty low hop dark 60/- id die, probably by drowning myself in 60/- , a happy man..

 

[foxy]

I did like McEwans Scottish Ale when I could get it, but not a session beer and I think would be too sweet for my taste now.

 

[Clarence]

Interesting play on los cojones del perro ! @Frisp. Not sure the Mahou-swilling fraternity use that colourful expression. Last time I was in Madrid, the "enthusiastic" expression of approval was ¡ Es de puta madre !
So weak stout. A contradiction in terms isn't it, but draught Guinness is only 4.2% and Mackeson is a lovely drink at 3.8%. I think a stout would be the easiest style to do as you can disguise the body-builders more easily with the roast malts, which, themselves, add very little fermentable sugar.
For bitters, why not try using a more characterful malt like Chevallier? Use the original amount of hops as this malt eats up IBUs for some reason.
Windsor yeast? Yuch! I'd rather gives up drinking. I'm not sure that it's maltotriose that gives "body", more the impression of sweetness. Whenever I've seen this yeast used, it's used for its (ghastly) flavour and another like Nottingham is added for attenuation.

 

[Mash Monster]

This might be of interest …… or not !!!

 

[Frisp]

Interesting play on los cojones del perro ! @Frisp. Not sure the Mahou-swilling fraternity use that colourful expression. Last time I was in Madrid, the "enthusiastic" expression of approval was ¡ Es de puta madre !
So weak stout. A contradiction in terms isn't it, but draught Guinness is only 4.2% and Mackeson is a lovely drink at 3.8%. I think a stout would be the easiest style to do as you can disguise the body-builders more easily with the roast malts, which, themselves, add very little fermentable sugar.
For bitters, why not try using a more characterful malt like Chevallier? Use the original amount of hops as this malt eats up IBUs for some reason.
Windsor yeast? Yuch! I'd rather gives up drinking. I'm not sure that it's maltotriose that gives "body", more the impression of sweetness. Whenever I've seen this yeast used, it's used for its (ghastly) flavour and another like Nottingham is added for attenuation.

los cojones del perro

yep thats what I was trying to say, a Spanish mate just looked at me quizically and said you mean " peni de burro' aparently thats the equivellent on the costa blanca .

So weak stout. A contradiction in terms isn't it

aye I know. But im trying to create a dark beer under 4% that I can gargle till the cows come home and a stout / scottish light seems the best place to start.

 

[Frisp]

This might be of interest …… or not !!!

most interesting

 

[crescent city Mike]

There is a slow but steady move to do just what you want. Drinking more than one or two without getting loud and falling down seems a better goal.

https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/small-beers/https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/session-beers/
There's enough info in these two articles to really help you persue your desire.

 

[DuncR]

I'm currently experimenting with slightly lower ABV brews and really enjoying the experience. No place to hide but that's part of the fun and I'm able spot even subtle changes in ingredients.
Works for me.

 

[Hoddy]

I Loooovvve the taste of beer, what I dont like are highish ABV beers that reduce the amount of beer I can neck in a session. I used to drink my bodyweight of Scottish 60/- which has an abv about 3.5%

So what im looking to do is drop recipes down to under 4% and nearer to 3% if I can . And No im not looking to go to 9ointles levels of alcohol !!

However I cant help think that messing with a 5% lager or a 6% Stout to get it down to under 4% is going to affect the body, mouthfeel and character of a beer..
I apreciate mashing higher temps may help choke the fermentable sugars a tad and throwing in a bit of oats could help mouth feel .

But whats the best way to keep the character of the beer while reducing the ABV?

1 just allow Brewfather to scale keep the % share of each grain the same and reduce the overall weight of all grains
or
2 reduce the % of big base fermentable malts and keep the flavour grains at their original levels..

Hops should stay largely at their original IBU levels regardles of ABV ( I think)

In short there is no simple answer because the question you ask is a complication of many things people have written in this thread plus all of the skill and experience that comes from creating recipes brewing, evaluating and brewing again. And again and again. If your not able to put the time in, then my best suggestion for you would be to buy a recognised lower abv all grain kit from someone like the malt miller and go with that if that’s what your after.

 

[dmtaylor]

Single infusion mash at 71C for 30 minutes. Boom.

 

[Hoddy]

Single infusion mash at 71C for 30 minutes. Boom.

Not that simple sadly. Unless you want a sickly sweet mess. Lower abv is a tricky delicate balance.