Honey Pale Ale

[RichardM]

My daughter has requested a homebrew version of this

She says "it's very nice, not too sweet" and she can taste the honey.
What do you suppose the "natural honey flavour" listed on the ingredients is?

 

[The Baron]

Strange description, Natural Honey Flavour.
How do you create a honey flavour that is natural?
If you get stuck use some honey malt, I have used Gambrinus several times but not too much as it can be overpowering against more subtle hops

 

[RichardM]

Strange description, Natural Honey Flavour.
How do you create a honey flavour that is natural?
If you get stuck use some honey malt, I have used Gambrinus several times but not too much as it can be overpowering against more subtle hops

I was thinking honey malt, but googling threw up this https://www.stringer-flavour.com/natural-british-honey-flavouring/ May be I should email them and ask for a sample

 

[The Baron]

If you do go down the honey malt and have some left add some to a bitter recipe it adds a nice twist or as I do a triple grain brew which is 1/3rd each of pale malt, Vienna and Munich and hops of choice .

 

[floydmeddler]

Why not add actual honey? Added to secondary is the way to go. You could shoot for a higher FG as the honey will lower it further when it’s added. Higher mash temp or a maltose negative yeast will do the trick.

 

[RichardM]

Why not add actual honey? Added to secondary is the way to go. You could shoot for a higher FG as the honey will lower it further when it’s added. Higher mash temp or a maltose negative yeast will do the trick.

From what I've read honey dries the beer and unless it is expensive honey it doesn't add much flavour. Also, I was intrigued by the "natural honey flavour" listed as an ingredient in the beer my daughter had. If they had just added honey then I assume it would be listed as "honey", not "natural honey flavour".

 

[An Ankoù]

From what I've read honey dries the beer and unless it is expensive honey it doesn't add much flavour. Also, I was intrigued by the "natural honey flavour" listed as an ingredient in the beer my daughter had. If they had just added honey then I assume it would be listed as "honey", not "natural honey flavour".

I'm intrigued, too. I suspect it means flavour that comes from natural, rather than chemical, sources, but not from honey even if it tastes like honey.

 

[The Baron]

From what I've read honey dries the beer and unless it is expensive honey it doesn't add much flavour. Also, I was intrigued by the "natural honey flavour" listed as an ingredient in the beer my daughter had. If they had just added honey then I assume it would be listed as "honey", not "natural honey flavour".

Adding Honey is like adding sugar it will ferment out and dry the beer out as you have suggested Richard

 

[The Baron]

If you did use honey you would have to use a low attenuating yeast to dry and stop it finishing too low but is it is a low ABV beer? if I am reading the can -looks like 3.4 but could be a 5 or a 8? this would obviously make yeast type challenging to stop it drying out

 

[Rudy]

Honey flavor depends on where the bees get their pollen. I add honey at high krausen, the sugar ferments out and what flavor it had is left in the beer. Most of the time it’s very subtle.

I used a pound (.45 kg) of orange blossom honey in an amber ale and the orange flavor was overpowering. Next time I’ll only use 1/4 pound (114 g)

 

[RichardM]

The only "natural honey flavour" I have found, so far, is this https://www.foodieflavours.com/shop/flavours/natural-flavouring/honey/ that says it is not suitable for drinks. They do a honeycomb flavour, but is is described as "sweet caramel with honey notes", so probably not what I want.
I could just use honey but I was intrigued by the use of "natural flavour ".

 

[The Baron]

I would use honey malt and honey Richard.
The honey as per said earlier in the FV just after the fermentation has reached its highest so it has time to ferment the sugar but not kill the flavour

 

[Twostage]

I'm intrigued, too. I suspect it means flavour that comes from natural, rather than chemical, sources, but not from honey even if it tastes like honey.

Yep. Not sure if it is still the case but there used to be a technical (maybe legal) difference between flavour and flavouring. Flavour means it tastes like it, flavouring means it contains it.

Honey flavour biscuits taste like honey but no bees involved.
Biscuits with honey flavouring will probably taste less like honey but will have the sticky stuff in it.

If this contained real honey it would say "...and natural honey" or more probably "...and honey".

 

[Twostage]

This looks useful...

Honey

Also, maybe some of the folks on here that make mead might be able to help.

 

[RichardM]

Yep. Not sure if it is still the case but there used to be a technical (maybe legal) difference between flavour and flavouring. Flavour means it tastes like it, flavouring means it contains it.

Honey flavour biscuits taste like honey but no bees involved.
Biscuits with honey flavouring will probably taste less like honey but will have the sticky stuff in it.

If this contained real honey it would say "...and natural honey" or more probably "...and honey".

The substance I found lists the ingredients as "Natural flavouring substances & preparations, triacetin (E1518)."

 

[Twostage]

The substance I found lists the ingredients as "Natural flavouring substances & preparations, triacetin (E1518)."

Yeh, I don't hear buzzing

 

[RichardM]

Yeh, I don't hear buzzing

When they "natural" I assume they mean naturally occurring chemicals rather than many made compounds

 

[RichardM]

This looks useful...

Honey

Also, maybe some of the folks on here that make mead might be able to help.

Thank you, there is some useful information to help to decide when to add the honey.
What I didn't get was how much honey was added. I assume "The amount of extract provided by honey is 10% of the total extract." should tell me, but I'm not sure how that would translate to grammes of honey per litre of wort.

 

[Twostage]

Thank you, there is some useful information to help to decide when to add the honey.
What I didn't get was how much honey was added. I assume "The amount of extract provided by honey is 10% of the total extract." should tell me, but I'm not sure how that would translate to grammes of honey per litre of wort.

Do you use Brewfather or something similar for recipe creation ? Brewfather has honey as a fermentable at 1.035 potential. You should be able to add honey to your recipe and then play with it to get it right.

 

[RichardM]

Do you use Brewfather or something similar for recipe creation ? Brewfather has honey as a fermentable at 1.035 potential. You should be able to add honey to your recipe and then play with it to get it right.

I use Beersmith, it probably has honey as a fermentable but that won't help me know how much to use to get the hint of honey taste.
I'll probably use some honey malt like @The Baron suggested and/or just chuck 100g of decent honey in near the end of the boil.