HLT & STC-1000

[Sone]

I want to buy one of these http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/60_ltr_Fermenting_Bin_Lid.html to convert into an HLT ready for when I get all my all grain equipment sorted. I was going to follow BigYins how-to and install 2 kettle elements and a tap, does anyone use one of these buckets as an HLT? Can I use one of those q-max cutters or is it not advised with plastic?

I was also thinking of adding something like an STC-1000 at a later date to control the water temperature, will this be suitable or is there a better device for achieving this as obviously the cooling side won't be used?

 

[danb]

I use a 30 amp single relay stc on my hlt. But others use a pid controller.

 

[hairybiker]

Why would you want 2 elements in an HLT? :wha:
I use a single element and an stc1000 (10A) to control it. If you want the water hot early put the whole lot on a timer. :thumb:

I used to use one of these as a boiler, one 2.2Kw element will handle a 10 gal boil. I have 2 elements on my boiler but only to get the wort up to the boil quickly.

 

[bobsbeer]

Yes you can use a Q Max on plastic. Just do it slowly so it cuts the plastic. Go too fast and it might split. I would still say a pid was a better option to control the temp with an SSR. If you put 2 elements in, just wire one to the SSR and pid and control the other manually. As it gets near to temp, knock the manual element off and let it be controlled by the pid. That way you get faster heating. Depending on the size of your element it will take a while to reach mash temps.

 

[Sone]

Thanks for the replies, roughly how long does it take to get the water up to say 80 degrees with 1 element hairy biker? I just wanted 2 for getting temp up quickly really.

Great stuff about the qmax, struggling to find a 38.1mm one though, any ideas where to buy one? Sounds like a pid is the way forward if using 2 elements, this is something I'll do a bit later anyway just want to get the basics sorted to start with! Feels like my all grain list just keeps getting bigger :lol:

 

[hairybiker]

Depends on how much water you are raising :thumb:

I put 5 gal in to my hlt when I start the mash, switch the stc on and set it to 80 for my rotary sparger. By the time the mash is finished the water is up to temp (from 5deg at the mo) (this is of course for a 27l brew) I haven't timed it.
For the mash (strike at 76 to heat the mt) I put it on before I walk the dog, by the time I am ready to mash (~40 min later) it is up to strike temp (but that is with 4 gal of water)
As I said I only use the 2nd element to quicken up to a boil.

My stc can control my strike water to with in .5 deg, I don't need the .1 of a pid, and the stc is a lot easier to setup.

 

[bobsbeer]

When it comes to heating up water, the most important part is the size of the elements. You could put in one 5kw element and that would be the same as 2 x 2.5kw elements. But you need to consider your electric supply. I use 2 x 2.4 kw elements because I need to plug them into 13amp sockets. One socket for each element. Each is 10 amps running off my downstairs ring main. A 5kw element would use 20.8amps. So try to plug that in with a 13amp fuse and it will blow. Whereas a 2.5kw will use 10.5amps. Still within the 13amp socket limit. Just use different outlets, not 2 from a 2 socket outlet or heat would be a problem.

As for the difference between a STC and SSR & pid, it is not the accuracy, but the way they operate. An STC operates with a relay and will soon burn out the relay. An SSR as the name indicates is a solid state relay, while it is still a relay, it operates differently and can withstand rapid on off cycles. But both will work, it's just the longevity you need to consider. When water is heating the relay will be on, but as it reaches target temp the relay switches on and off rapidly to maintain the temperature. You could change the hysteresis values, but then you get more of a swing either side of your target.

 

[hairybiker]

With my setting of .5deg. It is a duty cycle of about 2 min. (30 sec on, 90 off) Well within the capabilities of any relay.
I have been using my stc for over a year with no burn outs in evidence. :electric:
As I said if you feel the need to control with in 0.1 deg go the pid route. Not really needed though.
If you feel that the relay will burn out the change it for a 30A on or get one with a 30A relay fitted. :whistle:

The costs are much the same for the stc or the pid, but the box is MUCH bigger for a pid controller than an stc one.
My stc box isn't much bigger than the stc itself. (And no need for cooling, if you read the howto my BY you will see he cools his ssd's)

I use an stc for my hlt and another for my brew fridge, I think they are great little devices.

 

[danb]

I use a single 2.4kw in the hlt and boiler and takes less than a hour to reach temps. Although this weekend we have been busy putting a new supply through to the brewshed. So this week there will be another element going in each pot.

 

[danb]

And for 38mm qmax you want the 1 1/2 inch size. Perfect for the kettle elements.

 

[Dads_Ale]

I have converted a very similar looking FV (albeit smaller) into my main boiler without any problems. My original electrim boiler is now my HLT. It looks like it is made out of similar material and I hade no problem using a Qmax cutter to make holes.
I also installed one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/home-brew-75m ... 1041392091
into the HLT (and mash tun) which I have found really useful in checking the correct temps.

 

[JonnyD]

i use one of these for a HLT and have 2 elements, just to heat the water up quicker. works a treat. i use a PID to control 2 ssr.

 

[tazuk]

wot if one element goes pete tonge that why people like me have 2 elements in hlt and boiler :thumb:

Why would you want 2 elements in an HLT? :wha:
I use a single element and an stc1000 (10A) to control it. If you want the water hot early put the whole lot on a timer. :thumb:

I used to use one of these as a boiler, one 2.2Kw element will handle a 10 gal boil. I have 2 elements on my boiler but only to get the wort up to the boil quickly.

 

[TRXnMe]

I use a PID with a solid state relay and have two elements in my HLT, as above I control one manually and use the other to fine tune / maintain the temperature once it's at strike temperature.

PID + SSR was also cheaper than a UK supply STC when I was building my setup..

If you go the SSR route, the advice on size is double whatever amperage you intend to run through it, so go for one around 20 Amps for a value kettle element.

The second element serves two purposes, the first being quicker to strike temperature, the second being redundancy should one fail, not had that yet, but I've read of it happening to folk and really don't want that stress on a brew day, so plan to avoid it :)

My boiler can maintain a rolling boil on one element, but I have two for the same reason :)

 

[tazuk]

hi trx here is one of those htl converted now :thumb:

[/URL]

[/URL]

[/URL]

I use a PID with a solid state relay and have two elements in my HLT, as above I control one manually and use the other to fine tune / maintain the temperature once it's at strike temperature.

PID + SSR was also cheaper than a UK supply STC when I was building my setup..

If you go the SSR route, the advice on size is double whatever amperage you intend to run through it, so go for one around 20 Amps for a value kettle element.

The second element serves two purposes, the first being quicker to strike temperature, the second being redundancy should one fail, not had that yet, but I've read of it happening to folk and really don't want that stress on a brew day, so plan to avoid it :)

My boiler can maintain a rolling boil on one element, but I have two for the same reason :)

 

[TRXnMe]

hi trx here is one of those htl converted now :thumb:

[/URL]

[/URL]

[/URL]

Very nice mate, I keep meaning to get around to building one of my spares up with the bottom exit to avoid wasting a couple of litres of hot water every brew.

I've still got half a dozen on the shed awaiting me doing something with them, besides storing hops and grain in them that is :)

 

[Sone]

Great advice guys thanks! Never thought about an element failing midway through a brew day so I will stick with using two :thumb:

I'm thinking I might use a hole saw instead of a qmax cutter as they are quite pricey and I am only going to use them once really, plus I'd need a smaller one for the tap! Would a hole saw do a good job on plastic? If not what else can I use instead? I'm not the best at DIY surely can't go wrong cutting a few holes into a bucket :lol:

 

[hairybiker]

wot if one element goes pete tonge that why people like me have 2 elements in hlt and boiler :thumb:

Then have a spare handy. I have transferred from my boiler to my hlt to change the element in the boiler before. As long as you clean the elements the last for a long time.

 

[hairybiker]

Great advice guys thanks! Never thought about an element failing midway through a brew day so I will stick with using two :thumb:

I'm thinking I might use a hole saw instead of a qmax cutter as they are quite pricey and I am only going to use them once really, plus I'd need a smaller one for the tap! Would a hole saw do a good job on plastic? If not what else can I use instead? I'm not the best at DIY surely can't go wrong cutting a few holes into a bucket :lol:

A hole saw will be fine on plastic. That's what I used on mine, only got a qmax when I wanted to convert my SS boiler from gas to electric.

Get the solid ones though rather than the multi ones. The ones for pasterboard are best. (For installing downlighters etc)

 

[matth]

Why would you want 2 elements in an HLT? :wha:
I use a single element and an stc1000 (10A) to control it. If you want the water hot early put the whole lot on a timer. :thumb:

I used to use one of these as a boiler, one 2.2Kw element will handle a 10 gal boil. I have 2 elements on my boiler but only to get the wort up to the boil quickly.

I want to build a controller for my hlt, ideally put on a timer so its up to temp for when i get up and put a mash on before breakfast. I live in lancashire, so do not need the cooling function.

I have a STC-1000 with a 10amp relay - I use a tesco 2.2kw element, should i rig up a 15 or 20 amp relay to it -if so how is this done, would the existing 10a one need disconecting or bypassing some how?

I notice Hairybiker just uses the STC with a 10a, although i am a little nervous about this as the element is likely to pull about 9.2amp - which is a little close.

That said i'm not bothered about the STC waring out as it was only cheap, but i just don't want a fire or:electric: but dont want to waste the STC, would rather add another relay if it is possible but no idea how to do it, or i may be convinced just to wire it up as is using the built in 10amp relay, if forum members find it ok.

Any help would be greatly appreciated