Herms brewing

[gedburg101]

Hi guys,

My kit is pretty mismatched. I use a 21l swan tea urn as an hlt, a big igloo chest cooler as a mash tun and a peco boiler as my kettle.

I've made a decent amount of brews on the kit but I'm always looking to make the kit work harder. Question is, am I wasting my time fitting a herms coil to the HLT? I like the idea of recirculating as I understand it has a good effect on efficiency and clarity.

Thought welcome.

Cheer!

 

[Simonh82]

Do you mill your own grain? If not that would be my first suggestion for improving efficiency.

Mill the grain yourself and then use a BIAB bag to line your mash tun and you should get great efficiency and will never have to worry about a stuck sparge.

I can't comment on a HERMs coil. I quite like the idea of recirculating but I often see people posting on here frustrated with their HERMs systems. I think they can be tricky to get right.

 

[strange-steve]

I built and used a HERMS system for a while, but after a few brews I realised it really wasn't worth the extra effort. It's a lot more extra time to set up and clean, and as Simon mentioned they can be a bit of a faff to get working properly.

 

[Ale]

I was thinking of either HERMS or RIMS. HERMS did seem to be a bit more difficult and I had already pretty much written it off.

What about RIMS though, do you recommend that. It adds circulation which I've read improves clarity, but without the hassle of the heat exchange part of HERMS. I'm looking to upgrade from the basic kit to AG this year and as looking at either a set up like the this or just get a bulldog brewer or grain father.

 

[strange-steve]

I was thinking of either HERMS or RIMS. HERMS did seem to be a bit more difficult and I had already pretty much written it off.

What about RIMS though, do you recommend that. It adds circulation which I've read improves clarity, but without the hassle of the heat exchange part of HERMS. I'm looking to upgrade from the basic kit to AG this year and as looking at either a set up like the this or just get a bulldog brewer or grain father.

I think HERMS is a better option than RIMS, it's an easier build for a start, but also the element in the RIMS is in direct contact with the wort meaning scorching, heat spots, denaturing of enzymes are more likely than with HERMS.
It's not really difficult, and I used to love all the tinkering that went along with it, but I got to the point where I was trying to streamline my brew days so the HERMS was the first thing to go.
I made a copper coil and put it in a kettle , see below, with a little solar pump all controlled by a PID and it worked brilliantly for controlling temperature and for stepped mashes.
I haven't used it for over a year, but I the PID is great for controlling the HLT/boiler.

 

[Ale]

I think HERMS is a better option than RIMS, it's an easier build for a start, but also the element in the RIMS is in direct contact with the wort meaning scorching, heat spots, denaturing of enzymes are more likely than with HERMS.
It's not really difficult, and I used to love all the tinkering that went along with it, but I got to the point where I was trying to streamline my brew days so the HERMS was the first thing to go.
I made a copper coil and put it in a kettle , see below, with a little solar pump all controlled by a PID and it worked brilliantly for controlling temperature and for stepped mashes.
I haven't used it for over a year, but I the PID is great for controlling the HLT/boiler.

Easier build, you're 'aving a laff mate. I'm planning on buying a grain father or bulldog brewer or similar. I doesnt come easier than that.

The alternative is get a couple of concealed element water boilers, maybe a 30l as a brew kettle and a 15l for sparge water. I'll do BIAB or try and get basket like the bulldog brewer uses so I can mash in the brew kettle

 

[strange-steve]

Well obviously buying anything is easier than building it. But the OP was talking about installing a HERMS coil, you then mentioned RIMS, so I was explaining how HERMS is generally a simpler option than RIMS.

 

[fuzzy]

I've made a decent amount of brews on the kit but I'm always looking to make the kit work harder. Question is, am I wasting my time fitting a herms coil to the HLT? I like the idea of recirculating as I understand it has a good effect on efficiency and clarity.

I went HERMS as I wanted to have more control over the temperatures i.e. maintaining mash temps, step mashs and mash out.

I fitted a coil into a seprate smaller (12L?) thermopot with an 2kw element controlled by a PID. I felt this was a better solution than fitting into the HLT as it ment the HLT was free to heat sparge water. The smaller volume pot means its quicker to ramp the heat up rather than wait for a larger volume in the HLT to heat up. Also I mainly brew on gas so this was a better option for me rather than using the HLT.

It does help the clarity of the wort and effecency but for me the main benifits are the temperature control. Also I get just under 90% efficency normally.

The drawbacks are the extra setup and cleaning. Also the setup cost for the pump, hoses, fittings, coil, pot, PID/ control panel is another downside but I do feel the benifits and satisfaction are worth it.

I suppose it depends on how you see your setup developing. The seprate heat exchanger set up means you have a little more flexability if you wanted to change your brewing menthods or kit for example. Also for me it's a hobby so anything that allows me to get more enjoyment from it the better.

Just my thought's ......hope that helps

 

[Bigcol49]

HERMS is generally a simpler option than RIMS.

Hi!
A PID, a pump and a PWM voltage regulator is the way I've gone with my ACE boiler mash recirculation system. The wort is in constant flow over the concealed element and, with the heat reduced by the voltage regulator, there is no chance of scorching etc of the wort

 

[strange-steve]

Hi!
A PID, a pump and a PWM voltage regulator is the way I've gone with my ACE boiler mash recirculation system. The wort is in constant flow over the concealed element and, with the heat reduced by the voltage regulator, there is no chance of scorching etc of the wort

Is that a single vessel BIAB type system?

 

[gedburg101]

Never even thought about a separate vessel...

That said, reckon I could use a removable coil that isnt fixed in the HLT? Do people use wort chillers to recirculate?

 

[strange-steve]

Never even thought about a separate vessel...

That said, reckon I could use a removable coil that isnt fixed in the HLT? Do people use wort chillers to recirculate?

Using the HLT doesn't really work because the large volume of water takes too long to change temperature. For the HERMS vessel you want it to be small so that it can quickly heat up as necessary.

 

[fuzzy]

Do people use wort chillers to recirculate?

Personally I would't, A copper coil is easy enough to make.

I have never tried to HERMS with the HTL but for the cost of a kettle and a short coil its a tried and tested method thats not going to set you back too much, even if its just a trial to start with.

Also you do really benefit from a PID rather than a standard thermostat. A PID will teach itself when to turn on & off the heating element so it wont overshoot your target mash temperature. Also its best to measure the temperature as it comes out of the coil that way you should not over heat your mash.

 

[gedburg101]

Personally I would't, A copper coil is easy enough to make.

I have never tried to HERMS with the HTL but for the cost of a kettle and a short coil its a tried and tested method thats not going to set you back too much, even if its just a trial to start with.

Also you do really benefit from a PID rather than a standard thermostat. A PID will teach itself when to turn on & off the heating element so it wont overshoot your target mash temperature. Also its best to measure the temperature as it comes out of the coil that way you should not over heat your mash.

Cheers guys, this is really helpful.

I'm a simple when it comes to the building side of things. Has anyone shared any builds of such a thing?

 

[gedburg101]

Would a normal kettle be able to deal with maintaining the temperature of nearly 30l of recirculating wort?

 

[fuzzy]

Would a normal kettle be able to deal with maintaining the temperature of nearly 30l of recirculating wort?

Should be fine as long as the heat loses from the mash tun are not too great.

 

[strange-steve]

Would a normal kettle be able to deal with maintaining the temperature of nearly 30l of recirculating wort?

Yep, not only will it maintain temperature but it'll even allow you to do stepped mashes fairly quickly.

 

[Bigcol49]

Is that a single vessel BIAB type system?

Hi!
No. I'm using a 22 litre tea urn as a hot iquor tank and the ACE as a mash tun/boiler. I was going to use the BIAB bag, but other members have reported higher efficiency without the bag.

 

[gedburg101]

Easier build, you're 'aving a laff mate. I'm planning on buying a grain father or bulldog brewer or similar. I doesnt come easier than that.

The alternative is get a couple of concealed element water boilers, maybe a 30l as a brew kettle and a 15l for sparge water. I'll do BIAB or try and get basket like the bulldog brewer uses so I can mash in the brew kettle

So, small pump, kettle and inkbird and a length of copper would do the trick?

 

[strange-steve]

Hi!
No. I'm using a 22 litre tea urn as a hot iquor tank and the ACE as a mash tun/boiler. I was going to use the BIAB bag, but other members have reported higher efficiency without the bag.

Please excuse my stupidity, how do you use that setup as a RIMS? Are you pumping the mash liquid out of the ACE into the tea urn, heating it there and returning to the ACE?

When I think of a RIMS I think of one of these with a pump and PID: