Help with Belgian Pale Recipe substitution malt

[Ben Matthews]

Hi peeps. I'm hopefully brewing this weekend as my new yeast is on the way and should arrive today I believe (Wyeast Belgian Ardennes). I was planning on brewing my standard Belgian Blonde recipe thats pretty much Jamils recipe. However, with only 100 billion cells in the pack maximum (I don't even know the date on it yet) I will have to make a starter for sure. My SG on the Belgian Blonde is 1.069 so needs a good charge of yeast (250 billion) (12 litre batch) and I would have liked to overshoot that so I can keep some back in the fridge to use next time. So even with a 2 or 3 litre starter I'll only just hit that cell count which will mean pitching the lot. As its 1.069 I believe that maybe too high gravity to reuse the yeast? And theres no time to get two starters stepped up before Sunday brew day. So my plan is maybe to change the recipe to a Belgian Pale Ale with lower SG (1.053) and then I can perhaps wash and reuse the yeast from that and make a blonde next time?

So to change the grist I have ready for the brew to Jamils Belgian Pale Ale, it has a similar amount of Pilsner Malt so thats all good. I'll drop the table sugar addition. I have some biscuit malt which he has in the recipe.

Jamils Pale Ale recipe also calls for 284g of cara 45 which is (60L). I don't have any caramel malts at all apart from I've found some "Weyermans Cara-Aroma" but it has a much higher Lovibond (150). Could I get away with using this do you think if I reduce the amount. I was thinking as 150 Lovibond is 2.5 times 60 Lovibond, can I just divide the 284g by 2.5 (113) and add that instead to get similar colour and effect? I'd probably round it off to 100g anyway. Or am I going to ruin the beer?

Thanks in advance peeps.

Ben

 

[cushyno]

I'd stick with the original plan and keep back only a small quantity of your starter. You say 2L to 3L starter, that's a big range. If you make a 3L starter and save 300ml to build up next time, that's the best of both worlds.

Granted, building up 3L for the weekend if it only arrives today may be pushing it.

 

[Ben Matthews]

Cheers. My starter calculator doesn't seem to increase cell count much from 2 to 3 litres? Not sure if all calculators are different. I may go for the new recipe though as it'll have a slightly lower pitch rate and then I can definitely keep some back as well as harvesting yeast if needs be.

My main n concern with a 2 or 3 litre starter into 12 litres of wort is that it's a big percentage of volume. And normally I'd cold crash but time is of the essence.

 

[strange-steve]

My SG on the Belgian Blonde is 1.069 so needs a good charge of yeast (250 billion) (12 litre batch)

I'm not sure what calculator you're using but that sounds like a big overpitch. I calculated 150B cells, plus with a Belgian ale a small underpitch isn't necessarily a bad thing, I sometimes do it on purpose with my Belgian brews as long as the OG isn't too high.

I would have liked to overshoot that so I can keep some back in the fridge to use next time

If you underpitched by 10% (135B cells) and overbuilt by 50B cells to use next time, you could get away with a relatively small starter. Assuming 50% viability and using a stirplate then a 1L starter would do the trick, pitch 800ml and keep 200ml.

As its 1.069 I believe that maybe too high gravity to reuse the yeast?

Personally I'd happily reuse that thumb

 

[Ben Matthews]

Thanks for that Steve. It's was the calculator on captain home brew. WY Yeast recommend a pitch rate of 1.25 million cells per ml? Not sure I got the quantity right there but anyhow when I put that into my calculator it says I need 250 billion cells? Can you recommend another free pitch rate calculator?

I also don't have a stir plate so it's shaking for me hence a bigger starter. On my captain homebrew app you can choose aeration method.

Thanks for advice. This will be my 7th batch so a bit new to this all still. I'm paranoid about underpitch as I think my yeast got stressed for last batch. The gravity was higher than expected 1.076 and it had been used for a few generations and I only have wine nutrient which I think may not have zinc. The batch has a friend funny taste to it. Way over the top Belgian flavour and a bit of a harsh and alcoholic finish. I'm hoping that one will age out a bit better in a few months.

 

[Ben Matthews]

Not sure why my phone wrote friend funny taste just meant to say funny taste.

 

[strange-steve]

My favourite yeast calculator is the Brew United one here.

I would never use a pitch rate that high unless it was a lager, 0.75 mill/ml is plenty. Changing the aeration method to shaking means you'd need about 1.6L to hit that target without an overbuild.

It sounds to me like more of a temperature issue with your last batch. Do you use temperature control? I always pitch my Belgian beers a couple of degrees cooler and then ramp it up over a few days, which really helps to reduce harsh alcohol and other off-flavours. My last Belgian beer was a dubbel with an OG of 1.068, I pitched at 18° and ramped it up to 22° and it needed minimal conditioning, I was drinking it after 2 weeks in the bottle.

 

[Ben Matthews]

Thanks Steve. I'll check that pitch rate calculator. I do have temp control and it had a standard fermentation starting out at 18 degrees and slowly climbing up to 22 for a week and then a little higher for another week once all activity seemed to die down. This batch did come out higher than expected OG though. Previous batches were all 1.069/1.064. Me and a mate shared a bottle today and its not that bad at all. He thought it was pretty darn good but just not as smooth as previous ones. I'm going to leave it a month or so more and see if that helps. It did finish at 1.016 so not as low as hoped so it's a bit cloying and it does taste like its 8% which a good Belgian never does.

Cheers