Help please re FV

[Roadrunner]

Can the grape wine (home grapes) be fermented all the way in the 25l plastic fermenting vessel? I have some 6 gallons of pulp sitting in a vessel with 6 crushed campden tablets atm. I am planning to pitch pectolase tomorrow and a couple of kilo dissolved sugar. when it cools down I will pitch the yeast. Now, in a week-2 weeks time, can I just rack it to another fermenter with some more dissolved sugar and ferment in it ? I do have several demijohns so can use them if needs be, but thought that it would be much simpler for me to attend to just one bucket. So can I just use a plastic bucket all the way? (will buy a brand new one at Wilko tomorrow)along with yeast ,nutrient and some finnings. Anyone please?
I did make some home wine before (years ago) but then only had a couple of demijohns worth of pulp. With the amount of stuff I have now I am trying to reduce the amount of work needed. Anyone please?

 

[user 4004]

I don't see any probs with what you just said but if you are going to buy another fv I would go for a wide neck fermenter rather than a bucket as some people say the buckets don't seal, I have never had that problem with a wide neck and you can still get your arm in to clean it. If you are going shopping I would pick up a hydrometer as well to give you an idea of how much sugar you have before you start adding any.

 

[Roadrunner]

I don't see any probs with what you just said but if you are going to buy another fv I would go for a wide neck fermenter rather than a bucket as some people say the buckets don't seal, I have never had that problem with a wide neck and you can still get your arm in to clean it. If you are going shopping I would pick up a hydrometer as well to give you an idea of how much sugar you have before you start adding any.

Thank you for the tips :thumb:
Went to wilko today and they didn't have any buckets anyway. Only bought the other stuff (yeast pectolase stabiliser and finings) Already have rest of the equipment (hydrometer syphon corks bottles and corker all the chemicals etc) Stopped by my workplace and picked up two empty 15l water bottles that we use in the water coolers. Being a magpie that I am I have a stash of caps cork bungs etc of all shapes and sizes at home so found myself couple that fit the tops of the bottles, drilled holes in them and fitted airlocks.. Not ideal I know but free and will do the job I hope when I rack the wine into them next week. One question I may have if someone would be kind enough to answer, is whether I should/could use the wilko stabiliser or do I need to use the campden tablets at the end of fermentation,(I have both here but having read another threads I am a bit confused which one to use) ? Also are the wilko wine finings A&B any good? Bought a pack today but can buy another stuff if I have to.(read about KWIK Clear elswhere on the forum and will get it if I have to..
Thanks for your help so far.:
RR
PS. quite a few dented beer kits on the shelves in wilkos @ Pump Lane (Hayes) I wonder if they ever reduce the prices in there? Same banged up cans are sitting on the shelve at full price for weeks and no sign of a price drop on them

 

[Chippy_Tea]

is whether I should/could use the wilko stabiliser or do I need to use the campden tablets at the end of fermentation? Also are the wilko wine finings A&B any good? Bought a pack today but can buy another stuff if I have to.(read about KWIK Clear elswhere on the forum and will get it if I have to..

Stabiliser kills the yeast, campden tablets stop the wine spoiling after it had been bottled, rack onto a crushed campden then degas and add the stabiliser.

I haven't used wilko finings but i see no reason why they should not work, i now use KwiK Clear having tried a few different ones, i am about to try some Youngs Clear It as it is also a 2 part finings and we can get it locally.

Gortys wine -

 

[Roadrunner]

Thank you:thumb:
So at which point do I add the finings?
Do I rack the wine onto the crushed Campden tablets @ a rate of 1in5gal de-gass ,add stabiliser and then finings immediately Or do I need to wait before adding them?. Also do I need to add campden tablets just before bottling again? I read some instructions that say that you need to use them 3 times? (once 24h prior to fermentation, once after fermentation is finished when you rack the wine for clearing and a third time before bottling) Common sense tells me that it applies to a wine that is left to clear and stabilise naturally over a long period of time hence the need to replenish the sulfites before bottling?. Am I right assuming that using the stabiliser and fining agents the process goes a lot quicker so a second addition of campden tablets is all that is required before bottling?
Regards,
Roadrunner

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I use 1 CT per gallon of wine when i rack to the second DJ to stabilise, degas and clear it, i don't add more campden tablets when i bottle it which is usually 48 hours later.

I do it in order - rack onto CT, add stabiliser, degas then add finings.

 

[Roadrunner]

Cool, thank you:
All thats left for me now is to work out the amount of sugar to add to half of the wine to sweeten up part of the wine for the wife (I'm more of a dry to semi dry wine drinker and she likes it to be a bit sweet) I gather there shouldn't be too much risk of restarting fermentation since the stabiliser kills off the yeast? Will rack in to two spare dj when its finished and only add sugar to one of them hoping that it will do the job just fine and won't restart in the bottles. Or on the second thought might sweeten up the lot (with a projected ABV of 16-18% I think alcohol will overpower the taste of the grapes if I leave it dry so It might be better to make the lot sweet. Will decide after sampling the wine before bottling.
Thank you very much for your help.
RR

 

[Chippy_Tea]

When i made the original orange wow i was not keen so added a teaspoon of sugar to each bottle just before drinking it, Mrs Tea was happy with it dry.

 

[Roadrunner]

I did some maths and if all goes to plan and it ferments all the way down from 1.115 to 0.990 I will end up with 16.7% wine. I am wondering now whether to kill the yeast off before that to retain some sweetness in the wine. If my calculations are correct, if I start sampling for sweetness from about SG 1.010 ( at which point my wine will be exactly 14%) and kill off the yeast when the wine is at the acceptable sweetnes level (for SHMBO) I wouldn't have to back sweeten the wine afterwards? I get that I loose some ABV along the way due to not fermenting all the way, but am a bit sceptical about adding sugar to fully fermented wine (and 14% isn't too bad either)On the other hand I do have some preserved juice from the same grapes used in this wine so I can back-blend some into the finished wine to sweeten up without affecting the flavour profile if needs be. Choices...choices
PS. I've put another batch on last night. Had some 7 litres of crushed grapes left after I had enough of preserving etc. I thought that I would experiment a bit, so dumped it in another vessel and topped up with two cartons of Welch's 100% Pure purple grape juice and two bottles of Tesco's 100% Pure pressed Reg grape. Total volume so far is 10.5 litres will be about a litre more when I dissolve about 1400g of sugar in a .5litre water. taking into account all the loses along the way I want to achieve two demijons full when I rack it off for the last time (it will go like the previous wine to a 15l bottle for fermenting so I don't have to worry about head space and then transfered to glass DJ's for stabilising and clearing )Once again if the maths are correct I will be looking at about SG 1.110-1.115 after the sugar is added tonight. Looking forward to this one :)

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This is a rough guide -

0.990 is dry

0.995 is medium-dry

1.000 is medium

1.005 is medium-sweet

1.010 is sweet.

 

[Roadrunner]

Thank you :)
I was hoping that my assumptions were correct. Haven't done a wine in some 30years and back then my granddad and I didn't use any chemicals etc. (all natural in a massive glass carboys +time) hence my questions above. Looks like I'm in the ballpark then. Will let the wife sample from 1.010 down and stop when she likes it.(that reading will then let me calculate the exact ABV. I think I will let the other one (my experimental) go all the way for myself and back blend some grape juice to suit my taste if I need to.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The only problem i can see with your method is the wine is not going to taste anything like it will when finished, cleared and matured while it is still fermenting, i would back sweeten, i did this for a while with my juice wines and over time i got used to the taste of the non sweetened version and no longer sweeten it.

 

[Roadrunner]

The only problem i can see with your method is the wine is not going to taste anything like it will when finished, cleared and matured while it is still fermenting, i would back sweeten, i did this for a while with my juice wines and over time i got used to the taste of the non sweetened version and no longer sweeten it.

Good point :)
I will see when I get there and make an executive decision then. As I mentioned before I do have some preserved juice so I can back blend some into wine if I have to, so its an option for me too. I suppose I could let it ferment all the way and then sweeten up to the required level using the juice. Will have to do some maths and then decide. From a quick calc it looks like I would need about 1000g of sugar in the 27 litres to make it medium-sweet (working on assumption that you need about 30-60g per litre of wine to be classed as medium sweet , I set the value at 40 to be on the safe side). I begin to wonder if its worth calculating the amount of sugars in the preserved juice or just dissolve the required amount of sugar in a warmed up sample of wine drawn from the carboy stir it back in and be done with it. So thats an option too

 

[Gorty]

The only problem you might have is the ABV of your finished wine, will it ferment out to 16%+, you don't say what yeast you are using, this will need a high alcohol tolerance yeast.
I would suggest getting some 'Restart' yeast or similar and some 'Tronozymol' nutrient, it is a bit like the devil offspring of Semtex and C4 in most wines. I used some to restart a stuck pomegranate WOW that I'd not topped up with water early enough and nearly had to beat it back in the DJ with a stick!

 

[Roadrunner]

The only problem you might have is the ABV of your finished wine, will it ferment out to 16%+, you don't say what yeast you are using, this will need a high alcohol tolerance yeast.
I would suggest getting some 'Restart' yeast or similar and some 'Tronozymol' nutrient, it is a bit like the devil offspring of Semtex and C4 in most wines. I used some to restart a stuck pomegranate WOW that I'd not topped up with water early enough and nearly had to beat it back in the DJ with a stick!

Thanks for the tips :thumb:
Its Wilko Universal (Gervin)I gather its a high alcohol tolerant strain. From others opinions you can push it to about 18% , mine being 1115 should be within the yeasts tolerance I hope ( I made my sugar calculations with that figure in mind, I guess I will just have to wait and see). If there is some unfinished sugar left and its sweet then I have no issues with that, as long as its drinkable I will be happy.
Starting two WOWs tomorrow anyway: Rose (Red grape + apple + splash of Lowicz raspberry-the one in smaller bottles with more raspberry in them (World Foods isle at TESCO )
and apple + something (looking at the recipes atm) Something's gotta work innit with 11 gallons (across 4 batches) I'm hoping to end up with something drinkable from at least one batch .
RR

 

[Gorty]

Thanks for the tips :thumb:
If there is some unfinished sugar left and its sweet then I have no issues with that, as long as its drinkable I will be happy.
Starting two WOWs tomorrow anyway: Rose (Red grape + apple + splash of Lowicz raspberry-the one in smaller bottles with more raspberry in them (World Foods isle at TESCO )
and apple + something (looking at the recipes atm) Something's gotta work innit with 11 gallons (across 4 batches) I'm hoping to end up with something drinkable from at least one batch .
RR

I like your style Roadrunner! I've used Wilko's Gervin yeast and it worked well for me.

 

[Roadrunner]

Blimey, the airlock came to a halt today on my experimental (5 days after pitching yeast) Thought for a moment that I've got stuck fermentation. Panicked for a while as I do not have any restarting yeast or anything to rectify a stuck fermentation, then I've taken a reading and its already 0.991??? :wha: tasted the wine from a testing tube and its good too, no funny smells taste or anything (perhaps a little too dry for my buds and a little bitter (but not the nasty sort of sour) and its strong as hell too. I'm shocked that it could have fermented this fast. Anyway will rack it off to a clean carboy to get it off the sediment tomorrow or am I better off leaving it in there for some time yet?. Went from 1.115 to 0.991 giving 16.5% ABV in 5 days.

 

[Cwrw666]

You must just have had perfect conditions or something. I've had something similar with my beer brewing - the last kit I did took a month to ferment out, but I've just put a stout kit on and it finished in 3 days. The only difference being as we've now started running our woodburning stove, the airingcupboard is just a tad warmer.

 

[Roadrunner]

You must just have had perfect conditions or something. I've had something similar with my beer brewing - the last kit I did took a month to ferment out, but I've just put a stout kit on and it finished in 3 days. The only difference being as we've now started running our woodburning stove, the airingcupboard is just a tad warmer.

It was fermented in a cupboard (amb temp about 22-23*C). Racked it off to a clean carboy today (over crushed CT's) degassed and added the stabiliser. Didn't add the finings yet, thinking of waiting for a week or two before I do that. I must be doing something wrong, if it was as quick normally, the net would be plastered with stories of others successfully completing a wine in a week (fruit to bottle) and it isn't. I think I will let it rest for a while before going any further. If I did add the finings today then I would be ready to bottle in about 2-3 days (8-9 days from pressing the fruit ):shock: Clearly something wrong there..
RR

 

[Roadrunner]

The plot thickens :hmm:
Drew a sample and the wine is clear (not added any finings and it seems to have cleared in 4 days to a lovely ruby red all by itself) Also lost the slight yeasty tang it had when last tasting, looks all but finished. The only thing it is lacking is a bit of body, not much though and probably adding a little glycerine at bottling time will sort this. Other than that it looks finished, even the prevalent alcohol taste is gone, its still as strong as before but better incorporated to the wine. Will still sweeten up when bottling, but I am pleasantly surprised that it tastes so good already. Will draw another sample later on and try and post a photo here.
RR