Help me with kegs - convince me

[Harbey]

But, bottle conditioning your "hoppy beer" (if done properly) will not have caused oxidisation. Just sayin'

Any tips on bottling then? I'm not going to cold crash anymore as I believe that is introducing oxygen. The only other change I can see would be to use some co2 to purge the bottle before filling and capping.

 

[BarnBrian]

Hey Harbey, I think you're overthinking things, work on trial and error and you'll soon get there. Brewing isn't meant to be a chore (apart from bottling that is). In my mind there are loads of completely workable variables, the one important thing to follow though is cleanliness. Any bad brews I've made are all down to not cleaning and sanitizing my equipment.

 

[Ghillie]

Any tips on bottling then? I'm not going to cold crash anymore as I believe that is introducing oxygen. The only other change I can see would be to use some co2 to purge the bottle before filling and capping.

Cold crash is definitely a worthwhile step. If you’re using a plastic FV then it’s unlikely that you’re introducing oxygen to your beer.

Purging bottles with CO2 prior to filling is desirable but not essential.

What makes you think that your beers are suffering from oxygen exposure? I’m part of a home brewing Facebook group and people keep complaining about oxygen. But 9/10 something else amiss in their brewing technique that is letting their beers down. Oxygen is the scapegoat!

How do you clean your gear?

 

[Brew_DD2]

The only time I have found that O2 exposure is an issue is with massively-hopped NEIPAs. Pretty much every other beer style is far less affected by a small amount of oxygen ingress. If you are kegging, you are reducing the chances of oxidation massively anyway. Try to keep things simple for yourself. There is always the temptation to think that the more complex your process, the better your beer, but that's rarely the case.

 

[Harbey]

My issue is that I make bloody lovely beer and after a couple of weeks in the bottle it tastes great, looks good, is well carbonated and I couldn't ask for more. Unfortunately, I find it fades stupidly quickly. In most cases, this is just that it loses a lot of its taste and aroma after three to four weeks in the bottle. In other cases however, particularly when I've used a load of dry-hops (NEIPA stylee), it not only fades taste wise, it also starts to look rather 'brown'. Big disappointment this weekend (and hence the keg quest) when I had family visiting and pulled out a few bottles of what had been a really lovely, very hoppy IPA only to find it was now rather bland and was looking the wrong shade of golden. This was brewed on 6th April and would have been bottled around the 20th, so it's had about 5-6 weeks in the bottle. It's not 'off'. It doesn't taste bad. It just doesn't taste as good as it did and, from what I've read, this is generally a sign of oxygen exposure. My beers that are not as heavy on the hops do last fine and become very clear, golden and taste nice and clean so I doubt it's my cleaning/sanitation that's at fault. I've got a Citra heavy brew in the FV which is ready to bottle this weekend so I'm going to experiment by splitting the batch and cold crashing half and not the other. I'm also going to attempt to find a Soda Stream cannister to help with the bottling. I've also got my Homebrew Company basket full of kegs and taps and pipework but it's looking rather expensive and I'm yet to find a co2 supplier in the local area. I'm also a little worried that my beer consumption could really start to rocket if I had it literally 'on tap' from a keg. Is this a well recognised issue with kegging?

 

[Brew_DD2]

Harbey, that's exactly why I moved to kegging. I like to brew NEIPAs and they would last no more than a couple of weeks in the bottle before going that horrible brown/purple murky colour and taking on a horrible sweetness. I tried just about everything to minimise oxygen exposure until I gave up and started kegging. Oxidation is definitely a problem with the style. Kegging will make a huge difference in that regard.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Also if you do ever want to bottle, you can pick up a beer gun down the line for less than £40 which allows you to purge your bottle with CO2 and fill directly from the keg.

 

[Ghillie]

My issue is that I make bloody lovely beer and after a couple of weeks in the bottle it tastes great, looks good, is well carbonated and I couldn't ask for more. Unfortunately, I find it fades stupidly quickly. In most cases, this is just that it loses a lot of its taste and aroma after three to four weeks in the bottle. In other cases however, particularly when I've used a load of dry-hops (NEIPA stylee), it not only fades taste wise, it also starts to look rather 'brown'. Big disappointment this weekend (and hence the keg quest) when I had family visiting and pulled out a few bottles of what had been a really lovely, very hoppy IPA only to find it was now rather bland and was looking the wrong shade of golden. This was brewed on 6th April and would have been bottled around the 20th, so it's had about 5-6 weeks in the bottle. It's not 'off'. It doesn't taste bad. It just doesn't taste as good as it did and, from what I've read, this is generally a sign of oxygen exposure. My beers that are not as heavy on the hops do last fine and become very clear, golden and taste nice and clean so I doubt it's my cleaning/sanitation that's at fault. I've got a Citra heavy brew in the FV which is ready to bottle this weekend so I'm going to experiment by splitting the batch and cold crashing half and not the other. I'm also going to attempt to find a Soda Stream cannister to help with the bottling. I've also got my Homebrew Company basket full of kegs and taps and pipework but it's looking rather expensive and I'm yet to find a co2 supplier in the local area. I'm also a little worried that my beer consumption could really start to rocket if I had it literally 'on tap' from a keg. Is this a well recognised issue with kegging?

Not to sound like a **** or expert... but would you care to send me two bottles of your beer? One to drink fresh and the other to leave for a couple of weeks and compare the difference?

I’ll return the favour with some bottles of mine

 

[Harbey]

Would love to. Perhaps move this to PMs?

 

[Braindead]

I'm really thinking about going down the keg route following another batch of oxygenated hoppy beer. But what do I need to know regarding kegs? The actual keg bit looks easy enough but what else will I need?

You can easily oxidise hoppy bears in a keg too if not transferred via co2 and purged correctly.

 

[Brew_DD2]

You can easily oxidise hoppy bears in a keg too if not transferred via co2 and purged correctly.

You can, but it's far easier to avoid it in my opinion.

 

[Drunkula]

@Harbey
http://brulosophy.com/2019 /02/11/post-fermentation-oxidation-the-impact-adding-sodium-metabisulfite-at-packaging-has-on-beer-exbeeriment-results/

One campden tablet is enough for 29 litres at 10 ppm. 1g of sodium metabisulphite is enough for 66 litres. Fancy doing the experiment? I'll be doing it as part of a split batch test soon, but of course the results will be a long time coming. Anyone else wanting to join in with their own tests then that would be great.

And back to kegs. I managed to fix hairline fractures in a pressure barrel I've got, ran tests of having it pressured for a few weeks and decided, yeah, you're back in the game. I've been away and had it filled, primed and conditioning in a brew freezer at 13c. The barrel is fine but the fekkin cap has cracked - new cap, too. Big old batch of oxidised Doom Bar. It has that slightly sweet caramelly taste with a hint of sherry. It tastes like my memories of homebrew but without the actual other part to the twang. The other part being what I think is the not-great LME twang.

I don't know if shandy is going to save this one. Possibly. I'm going to put it into 2 litre pop bottles and reprime. If it's crap I'll use it for cooking because it's still better than loads of kits I've done.

Fekking pressure barrels, KMA.

 

[Harbey]

That makes for interesting reading. I'll certainly give it a go. I was planning on splitting my current brew to see the effect of cold crashing so I can now try it 4 ways.

 

[foxbat]

@Harbey
http://brulosophy.com/2019 /02/11/post-fermentation-oxidation-the-impact-adding-sodium-metabisulfite-at-packaging-has-on-beer-exbeeriment-results/

One campden tablet is enough for 29 litres at 10 ppm. 1g of sodium metabisulphite is enough for 66 litres. Fancy doing the experiment?

Read that write up and was all set to try it myself until I read down in the comments about ruined batches due to a sulphur taint and chickened out. Going to try Ascorbic acid starting at a fairly low rate in my Oktoberfest being kegged next week instead.

Fekking pressure barrels, KMA.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[foxbat]

I'm still just a little unsure about how to pressurise the kegs. Do I just blast co2 to the required pressure and then leave it? Does it need to be 'topped up' once you start pulling beer off?

After filling you need to carbonate.

You can fast carb at a high pressure rolling and shaking the keg. Instant carb but the beer might not taste great until its conditioned over a few weeks.

You can set-and-forget at say 10psi and leave on gas for two weeks. Beer will be carbed and conditioned. I do this. If you have to pull the gas to serve a ready keg you can but put it back after.

You can batch prime a keg with sugar, use a little gas to seal the lid and leave like you would bottles. Saves gas if you're running low. I guess this adds trub to the kegs. Never tried it.

With 3 kegs and one reg you are going to be juggling the gas to keep everything where you want it but it can work.

When serving the keg tops itself off with CO2 to maintain the pressure set by the reg.

 

[Drunkula]

Read that write up and was all set to try it myself until I read down in the comments about ruined batches due to a sulphur taint and chickened out. Going to try Ascorbic acid starting at a fairly low rate in my Oktoberfest being kegged next week instead.

Good idea. When I do it as part of the split batch there'll possibly 16 bottles with sulphites, 8 of them deliberately oxidised to bajeesus. Brulosophy didn't mention anyone tasting it so I'm still up for trying it, and I very much (too much) like an experiment.

I might even sulphite some of that ruined Doom Bar. Behind the oxidation you can taste the actual beer and it's just like the real thing. I made it for my friend as he really likes it. At least I bottled him a few, too.

 

[Ghillie]

Would love to. Perhaps move this to PMs?

Please do. I have a Citra pale ready in a couple of weeks that should be a nice beer.

 

[Sadfield]

You don't need convincing really, kegging (but most importantly force carbing) is just superior, quicker and easier - end of.

But, bottle conditioning your "hoppy beer" (if done properly) will not have caused oxidisation. Just sayin'

Strongly disagree with most of this except the easier bit.

Superior? No. Force carbonation vs refermentation is very much style and shelflife dependent. Generally, quickly consumed, hoppy beers are better forced carbed, stronger yeast/malt forward beers are better refermented. Refermentation does more than produce co2.

Luckily kegging still gives you both options.

Oxidation at package is pretty universally accepted as being a problem within the industry and homebrewing.

 

[bobukbrewer]

I bottle by jugging the beer out of the FV and pouring into bottles via a funnel. Get lots of foam and maybe I am accidentally purging the bottles because never in 40 years have I had a beer go tired on me. Tonight I drink the last bottle of a batch made 90 days ago and it will be as good, or better, than at 30 days. I bottle as soon as I can usually 4 to 5 days from yeast pitch and store bottles at room temperature, whatever that is........

 

[Ghillie]

Strongly disagree with most of this except the easier bit.

Superior? No. Force carbonation vs refermentation is very much style and shelflife dependent. Generally, quickly consumed, hoppy beers are better forced carbed, stronger yeast/malt forward beers are better refermented. Refermentation does more than produce co2.

Luckily kegging still gives you both options.

Oxidation at package is pretty universally accepted as being a problem within the industry and homebrewing.

It’s certainly quicker though? Superior was probably a wrong term to use, but - I just find the end product better. But I do agree that superior was a poor word choice.