Help! Low efficiency, grain crush??

[Nelson81]

Looks like you have got things spot on there thats what I would get with probably at max a litre of trub/waste at the most. Lets see what happens with the next brew but having time to think it may be that some of re-circ was bypassing the grainbill and not rinsing all the sugars out, maybe the grain was too coarsley crushed as well,we will see.
By the way how many options does MM give for crushing?

MM give you 3 options - uncrushed/crushed/finely crushed - I have now gone down the equipment profile rabbit hole, thinking my mash and sparge water volumes were wrong! (18.5 Mash / 14.3 sparge)

 

[The Baron]

Nothing wrong with your mash and sparge there they are fine do not listen to the lower K/LTR mash given out especially from Grainfather as they are way too low. Your setup is fine i have used that set up for years since I got my system and soon found out a low mash volume created issues the lowest I would go is 50/50 mash volume to sparge. I think the fine crush may cause a stuck mash but if it does it will stand you in good stead as it will help you to learn how to tackle it. I think you had a issue with the re-circ pump being on fully and sending a high proportion of the water down the centre pipe and not going through the grainbed so be prepared you may have to throttle it right back with a fine crush. Me personally I would stick with the standard crush but lets do the next brews and see what happens

 

[Nelson81]

Nothing wrong with your mash and sparge there they are fine do not listen to the lower K/LTR mash given out especially from Grainfather as they are way too low. Your setup is fine i have used that set up for years since I got my system and soon found out a low mash volume created issues the lowest I would go is 50/50 mash volume to sparge. I think the fine crush may cause a stuck mash but if it does it will stand you in good stead as it will help you to learn how to tackle it. I think you had a issue with the re-circ pump being on fully and sending a high proportion of the water down the centre pipe and not going through the grainbed so be prepared you may have to throttle it right back with a fine crush. Me personally I would stick with the standard crush but lets do the next brews and see what happens

Brilliant, thank you, I shall keep you posted!

 

[foxy]

Hi folks,

I have just finished my second all grain brew on a 30L Klarstein Mundschenk (Hopcat/Ace/Brewdevil etc)....I purchased all ingredients from the Malt Mill, enough for 2 x Kolsch style brews...my basic recipe and method as follows:

Default
72% efficiency
Batch Volume: 23 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 18.5 L
Sparge Water: 14.3 L
Total Water: 32.8 L
Boil Volume: 28 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.044
Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.009
IBU (Tinseth): 22
Color: 7.1 EBC
Mash
Temperature — 65 °C — 60 min
Malts (5 kg)
4.5 kg (90%) — BestMalz Pilsen Malt — Grain — 3.5 EBC
500 g (10%) — BestMalz Vienna — Grain — 9 EBC
Hops (78 g)
50 g (19 IBU) — Saaz (Whole) 3.62% — Boil — 60 min
28 g (3 IBU) — Hallertauer Hersbrucker (Whole) 2.9% — Boil — 10 min
Yeast
1 pkg — Fermentis K-97 SafAle German Ale

Now on my first attempt, everything was followed down to a tea - my hours of relentless research and homework seemed to pay off - every step went as planned - I checked my OG after chilling wort to pitching temps and it was 1.042, estimated 62% brewhouse efficiency?

Attempt two, exacting the same recipe and set-up, this time I adjusted the flow rate of the pump during the mash (was rising and going through the central overflow pipe quickly during attempt 1), I also made a point of giving the gist a good stir 20mins into the mash.......again I took a reading post chill, 1.042, identical!

Could anyone possible pick any holes in the method/recipe? My only thought is that the grain looked very lightly crushed, should I have selected the fine crush option on the Malt miller website as opposed to the standard crush?

Any help would be most appreciated! Thanks, Neil.

As you have just completed your second brew I have to ask is your system the latest system or did you buy it second hand? The reason I ask is, I fried my circuit board and the people at Guten kindly sent me a new board and screen which is for the later model. I had to calibrate the temperature with a thermometer to get the screen to the correct reading, I did this twice before getting it right.
It is standard practice to do this on the latest models, and I did notice that the chance of error is 5 C either way. So it could be your mash was to high, or higher than you thought.

Always a good thing to get yourself a mill, not only can you crush to how you want it, it also gives you the advantage of inspecting your grain, just to make sure you haven't been sold any old stock.

 

[Nelson81]

As you have just completed your second brew I have to ask is your system the latest system or did you buy it second hand? The reason I ask is, I fried my circuit board and the people at Guten kindly sent me a new board and screen which is for the later model. I had to calibrate the temperature with a thermometer to get the screen to the correct reading, I did this twice before getting it right.
It is standard practice to do this on the latest models, and I did notice that the chance of error is 5 C either way. So it could be your mash was to high, or higher than you thought.

Always a good thing to get yourself a mill, not only can you crush to how you want it, it also gives you the advantage of inspecting your grain, just to make sure you haven't been sold any old stock.

Thanks for this, it is a new model direct from Klarstein....I'm definitely considering crushing my own grain, especially if I have difficulty with the fine crush....

 

[foxy]

Thanks for this, it is a new model direct from Klarstein....I'm definitely considering crushing my own grain, especially if I have difficulty with the fine crush....

Should be in the instructions, calibrating the temperature. Another thing is does the store where you buy your grain put everything in separate bags?

 

[Nelson81]

An update! As we move closer to an uncertain, potentially housebound immediate future - I felt the need to get on with some brewing!!!! So.....Oatmeal stout:

72% efficiency
Batch Volume: 23 L
Boil Time: 60 min
Mash Water: 23.42 L
Sparge Water: 10.95 L
Total Water: 34.37 L
Boil Volume: 28 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.057

Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.064
Final Gravity: 1.016
IBU (Tinseth): 23
Color: 92 EBC
Mash

Temperature — 65 °C — 60 min
Temperature — 75 °C — 10 min

Malts (6.64 kg)
4.8 kg (72.3%) — BestMalz Pale Ale — Grain — 6 EBC
700 g (10.5%) — Harraway's Rolled Oats — Grain — 2 EBC
500 g (7.5%) — Crisp Chocolate — Grain — 950 EBC
500 g (7.5%) — Crisp Crystal Extra Dark — Grain — 340 EBC
140 g (2.1%) — BestMalz Roasted Barley — Grain — 1300 EBC
Hops (50 g)
25 g (12 IBU) — East Kent Goldings (EKG) 5% — Boil — 60 min
25 g (10 IBU) — Fuggle 4.2% — Boil — 60 min
Yeast
1 pkg — Wyeast Labs 1084 Irish Ale

So, as mentioned before this was from a fine crush grain.....increased meant more mash water and less sparge water. Added a mash out to hep with potential sparge issues.....as before, went smoothly, thankfully no stuck sparge - a lovely aroma in the house! ended up with just shy of 22L in the bucket for some reason - and an OG of 1.059. Now, despite all the variables, different crush and water qty's etc, I have a brewhouse efficiency of.........64%, consistent if nothing else!!! I see there is a method of adding 10% more grain than the recipe calls for, and do the necessary calculations to add more water if required to acheive the OG targets - looks like that will be my method moving forward!!!!

 

[foxy]

That efficiency is similar to mine with a full volume mash and no sparge.
If you have a good thermometer put some water into the vessel set the temperature to 65 C, then check the temperature close to the probe. If its out (mine was 3 degrees) adjust to correct temp. Everything else you are doing seems right.

 

[Nelson81]

Hi Foxy, thanks for the tip - I will do this before my next brew!

 

[foxy]

Hi Foxy, thanks for the tip - I will do this before my next brew!

Another tip is if you do get a grain mill, try and get a geared 3 roller, makes a huge difference, I have a 2 roller which I use for just milling rye, a three roller where the adjacent roller is driven by the grain passing through which shred the husk. And my new geared 3 roller which leaves the husk intact and a nice break down of kibble and flour.