Help - Cider won't fement!

[Ukum Heavy]

Please can I have some help. After a the excitement of apple collecting, pressing, buying the kit etc. I am seriously despondent as my cider just refuses to ferment. It has been three weeks and I have not had a bubble. What is going on?

I'll now bore you with some details that may be relevant.
1) I have about 20litres of apple juice pressed from my (organic) tree, sitting in a fementing bin with the lid on and a valve on top.
2) I added 4 teaspoons of campden powder to the mix on day 1. about 20 hours later I added my batch of yeast having given it about 2 hours "starting" in a glass of sugar water.
3) 6 days later there was not a single bubble so I made another yeast starter. Added some apple juice after a day or so and poured that in the mix.
4) Juice is kept inside. It can get a bit cold at night, but the liquid seems to be around 18 deg C.
5) Hydrometer was at around 1.045 and I added a bit of sugar to bring it up to 1.050.
6) Another week later and still no joy. Set up another yeast starter then added a load more apple juice. But that seemed to kill off the fermentation after a while.
7) chucked another yeast starter in about three days ago. Still nothing and it has been over 3 weeks of nothing.

Is my apple juice just dangerous to yeast?
Should I take the lid off?
Should I sit and wait for a few more weeks?
Am I using the wrong yeast? (champagne yeast from my local home brewing shop).

Any advice woudl be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Crastney]

temp - does it go lower then about 15 at night time? if so, the yeast might stop working when it gets too cold, and then not start again the next day when it warms up.

bubbles - are you checking for fermentation just by seeing if there are bubbles on the trap? Is your fermenting vesel fully sealed around the lid?
Have you opened it and looked at the juice? - is there a foam on top?
Have you checked the specific gravity again, since you started?

If you haven't looked inside, and are relying on bubbles through air lock, and your lid isn't fully airtight, and you haven't checked the SG, it could be perfectly fine, and fermenting away nicely.

it could just be a slow ferment due to the lower temperature - ideal would be between 18-20.

it's very unlikely, but you could have had three bad batches of yeast - was there a use by date on them?

 

[alanywiseman.]

Get the hydrometer out and see if it has moved.

FYI when rehydrating yeast do it in cooled boiling water (at about 35C). Pour the yeast onto the water and just leave it for 30mins-60 till it has rehydrated (no stirring). After alloted time stir and pitch. Adding sugar will alter how the yeast ferment, it is best to just rehydrate in the cooled boiling water only :thumb:

 

[Ukum Heavy]

Thank you, Snoozer and Slurper.

I just don't have anything on the surface of the liquid - no bubbles, no foam. And the yeast was definitely working when just in sugar and water. Would it be worth putting it next to a radiator for a while and see if that activates the yeast? And how about trying with another pack of (properly rehydrated yeast) now?

As for the hydrometer, the reading did not fall after two weeks. Then I used the hydrometer to stir in the yeast about a week ago and the plastic broke and the heavy part fell to the bottom (I failed to mention this earlier as I thought it may cloud the discussion!). As an aside... any ideas what's in the bottom of the hydrometer as a weight (I think it looked like a green plasticine)? I hope I haven't poisoned my juice with some dodgy chemicals.

 

[alanywiseman.]

:lol: :lol:

Best to use a spoon or paddle to stir. have a sip of your cider. does it still taste of AJ? I am assuming you are using eating apples, have you added any acid? what is the pH of the cider?

 

[Crastney]

older hydrometers have lead pellets in, and are glass. a previous discussion on here suggested to throw the hole thing to avoid any chance of someone getting ill, or glass in their throat.

... only way to know would be to contact the manufacturer, but I'm guessing that due to contact with food stuffs, and risk of breakage, the insides would most likely be food safe.

a warmer temp might help. There's a thread somewhere on getting a stuck fermentation going, and it involves a small yeast starter, then doubleing the volume, using the stuck ferment liquid, in a small jar, then a milk bottle, then a half DJ, then a DJ, then Fv, doubling each time, 12-36 hours apart, once you're sure fermentation is continuing in each one.

p.s. our user names are in bold just above our level of forum activity (my username is Crastney)

 

[wilsoa1111]

thats definately an odd one, no fermentation at all???possible way that could happen is if u didnt add campden but instead used potassium sorbate (not the same as metabisulphate)... just throwing it out their as something must be toxic in there-hpefully not the hydro! :sick: only way to fix is again following as if a stuck mash and eventually will run out of the essentially poisonous to yeast sorbate or whatever... so yeah get a djs worth of starter and lob it in also make sure to put the cider through a filterpaper to catch any glass from the hydrometer...

 

[Ukum Heavy]

Thanks Wilsoa, and Crastney,

Agreed, it is odd as I haven't seen anyone else with absolutely no activity. Will have another go with the juice and will try to increase the temperature. Will let you know if I get any results.

 

[histman]

Had exactly the same problem two weeks ago.
I had used 6 level teaspoons of Richies Campden Powder to 6 gallons of pressed juice.
Nothing would get it going (3 applications of yeast starters).

So I roused the juice by very vigorous stirring over a 24 period about 6 times (5 minutes at a time) with a sterilized paddle. I then pitched another starter (using Wilkos Gervin wine yeast) and it got going.

I tried to keep the temperature at 20C.
I think it was the campden powder that was the problem.
Next time I will use less per gallon!

HTH

histman

 

[Ukum Heavy]

Hello all. Thought I'd just conclude the matter saying that I have a good barrel of ferminting cider. The trick seemed to be to thoroughly aerate the juice which I did by dipping a jug into the base of the barrel and pouring it from high - many many times. I must have over-dosed on the campden powder and hence my yeast starters were being killed.

Hope someone else finds this useful. Happy brewing.

 

[Jonny69]

Just my eye, but that looks like you used way too much Campden powder. You'd normally add a single crushed tablet to a gallon, so your total amount should have been about 4 tablets and that would have amounted to less than a teaspoon. What normally happens is you leave it 24 hours so the sulphur dioxide from the Campden dissipates into the air and the yeast can then survive in the liquid, but you've added quite a lot more so it would take a lot longer to do it by itself. Where you've aerated it you've effectively done the dissipation bit :thumb: