hefeweizen recipy wanted

[tazuk]

hi all has anybody got a good hefeweizen recipy i can use looking for 25 ltr final brew ish cheers :thumb: :drunk:

 

[TheMumbler]

basically 50% wheat malt and 50% lager malt. I think 60/40 is not uncommon.
around 15-20 ibu of some sort of german hop (say hallertauer)
the right yeast (very important) wb06 seems to be best regarded dry one. There are a few options with wyeast and whitelabs depending on exactly what you want, wlp300 or 368 from memory

for more detail see this thread

 

[tazuk]

got this lot so far wot is total water ie for mashtun and sparge
and the double decoction i take its the same as gluten re set thing i did with effin oatmeal stout but how mutch water for that bit or does it matter ??????

Well Erdinger is pretty much the classic Bavarian Wheat Beer. Gravity 1.051, 18 Units of Bitterness and fairly pale at 9 EBC

for 25L I would Aim for

2950g Wheat Malt
2420g Pale Malt (Or lager malt)

It could be a long slow sparge with that much wheat, so 500g of oat hulls should be added to the mash to aid in the lauter.

18g Tettnang Hops (90 Minutes)
12g Perle Hops ( 90 Minutes)

10g Tettnang Hops (45 Minutes)

10g Tettnang Hops ( 15 minutes)

Aim for something like 80% of the IBU coming from the 90 minute addition (around 15IBU) and the remainder from the 45 minute addition. . . . You'll have to mess about with a calculator to determine accurate weights given the alphas of the hosp you have. . . When I did this they weren't published.

Erdinger do a double decoction . . . I suspect out of habit although a glucan/ferrulic rest at 35-40C is possibly a good idea, which you could do with a single infusion of boiling/hot water if you don't have the facility to do stepped mashes. . . but it is not required with this grain bill really.

The usual rule is to pitch big . . . Don't . . . this is one of those times when under pitching into cold wort is a good idea. . . If you are using dry yeast (WB-06) one sachet into wort at 12C is fine . . . gradually allow the wort to heat up over the next 4 days to 18C and allow it to finish at that temperature . . . If using Wyeast 3068 or the Whitelabs equivalent . . . pitch the smack pack or tube directly into the wort at 12C, again allow it to rise to 18C over the next 4 or 5 days. . . . this will generate those lovely banana and clove flavours.

Ferment for 7-10 days, then crash cool for another 4 days, to drop a lot of the yeast before transferring to a cask/ bottling bucket . . . Prime to give around 2.5 Volumes of CO2 in the finished beer . . . so you could be looking at around 120g of sugar.

I prefer to bottle my wheat beers and they are best drunk young.

_________________
leMan (The Brewer Formerly Known As Aleman)


mash temps would you suggest? 65C would be my guess
Yes, anywhere around 65 - 67 C will be fine

http://www.haiths.com/Products/Oat-Husk ... CAST01001/

 

[tazuk]

42 views no up date not good

 

[TheMumbler]

42 views no up date not good

be patient :-), we aren't all on here all the time...

I would forget doing a decoction unless you are confident with AG brewing in generally. They are a pain in the arse IMO. 50/50 wheat/British lager should give you enough diastatic power from the lager malt to convert everything in a single infusion mash. You could add a little melanoidin malt if you want those kinds of flavours. I think Aleman's thread on doing a bohemian pilsner should help you with the quantities. Personally I would keep it as simple as you can if you aren't a practiced brewer. You can always make things more interesting next time...

I don't have anything to hand but I can try and find a link or two if you do want to go for a decoction.

How much water you need is going to depend on your set up. Dead space, evaporation due to boiling and so forth are going to be unique to your set up. There are calculators to help you with this sort of thing here. I normally find that around 30l preboil gives me 20-23l depending on exactly how long I boil and the amount of hops used. You will need to factor in how much water will get soaked into the dry grain as well. I normally just plug it into the calculator guestimating my losses to boil etc.

Have a read through one of the how to guides, like this one, if you aren't confident on general technique. Although you have done a few so maybe this isn't needed.

I would also recommend having a mashing and sparging bag on hand as you may get a stuck mash. The good news is we aren't aiming for clarity here so it isn't a big deal if you do end up having to strain it out throught the bag. Don't panic my first AG was a hefeweizen. Some of the weizen yeasts throw off some pretty unpleasant smells in fermentation so don't panic if it smells a bit whiffy. You might want to put it in a pressure barrel or similar for a while to let these gasses off if this happens to avoid getting the nasty smell stuck in your bottles.

Agree with you on bottling and drinking young.

 

[Darcey]

Hello!

I did the Erdinger clone as AG3 I think. I didnt do any stepped mashes or glucan rest with the wheat malt. I was mashing over night back then so I assume that because of this I got away with it. As I posted before my final ABV was only 3.9% but this was my early days of AG brewing.

After 2 weeks it was cracking beer as well!!

D

 

[Dave1970]

I'm doing Effin Erdinger as my next brew too. I'm still a bit unsure about the decoction mashing...please tell me if I have it right :wha:

Is the problem is that the malted wheat doesn't have the necessary amylase enzymes to convert all the starches to sugars? If I went ahead and just did a straight 90 min mash @ 66 C is then I'm relying on the lager malt having enough enzymes in it to convert all the starch. Can anyone who's done this recipe as a straight mash reassure me that they did hit their target gravity

What is it that the 20 mins at 35- 40 C does? Does it produce more enzyme to be active in the 2nd higher temp part of the mash

Finally...if I did do a decoction would this work?
1. put all of wheat & 20% of lager malt into big pan, add minimum amount of water to get thick mash @ aprox 37 C...leave 20 mins , maybe in a 40 C oven to hold the temp
2. Pre heat mash tun, put pan on the gas and raise to 66 C, then add this + rest of grain + more strike water (temp calculated using brewmate) to hit 66 C
3. Mash as normal

I'd much rather just do the single stage mash, would making this mash longer increase the chances of full conversion?

 

[Darcey]

When I did it I wasn't aware of the diastatic effect of the malts. I just mashed over night because it was easier for me to do! I am thinking of doing this AG again in about a week for a quick turn around beer so would be interested in hearing the outcome of this and trying it with a rest.

D

 

[phettebs]

This is my go-to recipe for wheat beer:

6.5lbs Wheat malt
3lbs Vienna malt
2lbs Pale malt
1 oz Tettnanger, 4.4%AA, 45 min
1 oz Saaz, 4.0%AA, 15 min

Mash schedule: 40 minutes at 50C; raise to 60C, rest for 15 minutes; raise to 70C, rest for 60 minutes; raise temp to mash-out.

Wyeast 3068

Ferment at 18.3C to give a nice mixture of banana and clove.

 

[TheMumbler]

Is the problem is that the malted wheat doesn't have the necessary amylase enzymes to convert all the starches to sugars? If I went ahead and just did a straight 90 min mash @ 66 C is then I'm relying on the lager malt having enough enzymes in it to convert all the starch. Can anyone who's done this recipe as a straight mash reassure me that they did hit their target gravity

I think I probably spread unecessary panic by mentioning diastatic power. Sorry. You need to watch this when dealing with large quantities of unmalted and/or highly kilned malts. You should have plenty enough enzymes between the wheat malt and your base malt. I don't know that wheat malt has any less diastatic power than barley malt and it will certainly have some. I tend to assume that base malt (pale ale, lager) will convert itself and roughly as much again. This will vary according to your supplier I am going on Fawcett's malt from my experience. I think somebody was saying that Baird's may not give you as much diastatic power. I don't know about US malts. The main problem with increasing amounts of wheat malt is how sticky your mash gets.

What is it that the 20 mins at 35- 40 C does? Does it produce more enzyme to be active in the 2nd higher temp part of the mash

At a guess (from memory) it might be to break down some of the stickier proteins, or a ferulic acid rest to give you more clove notes.

 

[tazuk]

i think it would be far easy for some of us for some body to do recipy from start to finish with total water and wot is needed to stop problems lol :thumb: now that would be sweet :thumb:

 

[tazuk]

just be care full look wot devonhomebrew did :rofl: :rofl: :thumb: :thumb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t287aLW6wpU&feature=plcp

 

[Dave1970]

i think it would be far easy for some of us for some body to do recipy from start to finish with total water and wot is needed to stop problems lol :thumb: now that would be sweet :thumb:

Ok, here's how I'm going to do it (now that I'm reassured about not needing to worry about decoction mashing)

1. Heat up strike water in the Buffalo boiler for this grain bill I'd need 2.5*(2950+2420)=13.4 litres so about 20 odd litres would do. I'd use the calculator built into Brewmate to work out the strike temp...if my grain was at garage temp 12 C then the strike temp would be 74.6C
2. Pre heat coolbox mash tun with 2 kettles boiling water
3. add the 13.4 litres to the mashtun and dough in the grain + some oat husks to help avoid a stuck mash...check temp and adjust using cold/boiling water..aiming for 66 C
4. wait 90 mins (or maybe 2 hrs for this one)
5. take first runnings and return to tun until clear
6. heat another 23ish litres of water to about 85 C
6. I fly sparge so I'd start sparging until I have 29-30 litres of wort (or the gravity falls below 990 although I haven't got close to this low yet) ...this is what I need to end up with 23-24 litres after the boil (the Buffalo has a very vigorous boil and evaporation losses are high)
7. Boil for 90 mins adding hops as required. Put chiller in with 15 mins to go to sterilise and whirlfloc tab at 10 mins
8. Chill - try to get really cool in this case for low pitching temp
9. Put into FV- from a height - get plenty of oxygen into it
10. Pitch vial of whitelabs WLP300 direct into wort and bung the Fv into the fermenting fridge @12C - raise over next few days as in Aleman's instructions

 

[tazuk]

sweet you are a star m8 :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumb: :thumb:
i take it the following just to heat mash tun only then get rid
2. Pre heat coolbox mash tun with 2 kettles boiling water

i think it would be far easy for some of us for some body to do recipy from start to finish with total water and wot is needed to stop problems lol :thumb: now that would be sweet :thumb:

 

[pittsy]

hi, if you want a real wheat beer you should be using some belgian 2 row 40% and some pale wheat (weyermann or dinglemans are great) 60% no need for decoction just make sure you do a protein rest while mashing in at 44c for around 20 mins before moving on to 66c for standard mash . mash for 60 mins after protein rest. If you like the heavy banana taste go for wlp 300 if more clove wanted try wlp380 or if none of clove and banana wanted you could try wlp320 American hef yeast (just about to try this 1 myself) wb06 is a good dry yeast but there is no comparison to a liquid yeast . Ferment at 18c , don't transfer to 2nd vessel as this is not wanted or needed. If you have issues with stuck mash try using some rice hulls around 500g , i have a false bottom in my mash tun so i don't bother

 

[pittsy]

p.s don't use whirlfloc tablets its meant to be cloudy

 

[tazuk]

i have been looking for books on this found this one :thumb:

Brewing with Wheat: The 'Wit' and 'Weizen' of World Wheat Beer Styles
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280859953606? ... 1438.l2649

found these in recipy section :thumb: :thumb:

recipeview.php?recipe_id=69

recipeview.php?recipe_id=215

 

[Aleman]

If you want a real wheat beer you should be using some belgian 2 row 40% and some pale wheat (weyermann or dinglemans are great) 60%

Sorry but that is not correct, for a traditional Wit beer then yes, unmalted wheat is used, but for a German Wheat beer they (have to) use malted wheat (Reinheitsgebot )

no need for decoction just make sure you do a protein rest while mashing in at 44c for around 20 mins before moving on to 66c for standard mash . mash for 60 mins after protein rest.

And how do you achieve the jump in temperatures . . . you can do it with a heated tun (ala BIAB) or a HERMS / RIMS Or Infusion of hot water . . . or the traditional Decoction Mash . . . As it says in the quoted post for Erdinger, "Erdinginer do a double decoction", however I think that is just for tradition and is not required at all.

To go back and answer some questions.

Wheat malt contains enough enzymes to convert itself so no worries with not getting a full conversion, Pilsner malt will convert itself + it's own weight in non enzymatic adjuncts.

This beer can be made with a Single infusion mash at 66-68C, the reason for using a glucan rest for the wheat malt ("all of wheat & 20% of lager malt into big pan, add minimum amount of water to get thick(*) mash @ aprox 37 C...leave 20 mins" (*) use 2.0-2.5L per Kg ) is simply to break down the high level of glucans that wheat malt contains . . .if you want to use rice/oat hulls then this step can be ignored completely, although it also acts to produce ferrulic acid which is a precursor for one of the banana/clove taste characteristics, it depends on how you want to swing the taste profile of the beer.

Remember that much of the flavours of the beer come from the initial stages of fermentation, and if you stress the yeast at this stage (under pitch, Pitch cold, low oxygen) then you can emphasise the flavour profile.

Just remember that the bit with the wheat malt seperate to the main mash is NOT a decoction, but the glucan/ferrulic acid rest, a proper decoction would go to boiling through all the mash rest temps . . . this is just rested at 37C for 20 minutes then raised to the main mash temp.

 

[pittsy]

i thought pale wheat was malted wheat Aleman ? am i missing the point :) and i thought a protein rest was required ? my info says 40c but on reading a long long post on northern brewer they was saying 44c if this is not needed then it would make my life easier as i brew lots of wheats , also by real hef i was on about the 60% 40% mix and weyermann is german , ok dinglemans ain't but its close i know your the man i was just clearing up my miss info cheers

 

[adomant]

It would be described as wheat malt (which generally it is from the usual suppliers if you check the description). I am just enjoying the first few pints from a corny keg of this recipe that has just become ready, I can verify that the recipe / method is sound!

I fermented with Danstar munich wheat yeast and batch primed with half a pack of saflager hydrated and mixed with 160 of wheat spraymalt and 500ml boiled water chilled to 26c.

I could not be bothered to bottle so left keg for 4 days in warm and 2 weeks cool. Now drinking it draft from the bar and Erdinger glass (will send pic). Very happy indeed.