Heater for mash tun?

[liams1989]

Hi all, I’m looking at starting all grain brewing, and one thing I’ve noticed is that where people use cool boxes for mash tuns, they have a small amount of heat loss.
Is it possible to add a small heater/element to the mash tun to keep it up to temperature?
Thanks

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Yes you absolutely can. What’s more, having the ability to heat the mash enables you to do “step mashes” which are very important to certain styles.
A good solution to how to do it simultaneously combines the benefits of heating the mash liquor, with those of recirculating it during the mash (which is another very good idea). You just heat the liquor on its way round the circuit - either by running it directly past a heating element, or indirectly using a heat exchanger. The latter system is called a HERMS setup and is what I do; using my counterflow ‘chiller’ as the heat exchanger

 

[liams1989]

Yes you absolutely can. What’s more, having the ability to heat the mash enables you to do “step mashes” which are very important to certain styles.
A good solution to how to do it simultaneously combines the benefits of heating the mash liquor, with those of recirculating it during the mash (which is another very good idea). You just heat the liquor on its way round the circuit - either by running it directly past a heating element, or indirectly using a heat exchanger. The latter system is called a HERMS setup and is what I do; using my counterflow ‘chiller’ as the heat exchanger

I did wonder about circulating during the mashing time too. Do you know of any in line elements that would work for this?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I did wonder about circulating during the mashing time too. Do you know of any in line elements that would work for this?

Not personally, but have a look for "RIMS element". I think they will typically be for bigger setups though.

Here's a pic of my diy HERMS setup in operation. The Mash tun is the white bucket on the right (in fact it's two concentric buckets, with the bottom of the inner one cut out and replaced with fine SS mesh). The heat exchanger is in the middle; and the kettle on the left provides hot water that's circulated through the counterflow jacket.

Temperature of the kettle is managed with an industrial controller.

Circulation is done with cheap 12V eBay pumps that only cost a fiver or two - still working very happily after a couple of years...

 

[liams1989]

Not personally, but have a look for "RIMS element". I think they will typically be for bigger setups though.

Here's a pic of my diy HERMS setup in operation. The Mash tun is the white bucket on the right (in fact it's two concentric buckets, with the bottom of the inner one cut out and replaced with fine SS mesh). The heat exchanger is in the middle; and the kettle on the left provides hot water that's circulated through the counterflow jacket.

Temperature of the kettle is managed with an industrial controller.

Circulation is done with cheap 12V eBay pumps that only cost a fiver or two - still working very happily after a couple of years...

View attachment 56589

I think a more diy setup is where I’m headed at the moment. I’ve quite possibly got a cool box already (if it’s big enough is another story), just need to sort out a boiler for the wort. Spent a lot of time reading this week

 

[stripeyjoe]

I think a more diy setup is where I’m headed at the moment. I’ve quite possibly got a cool box already (if it’s big enough is another story), just need to sort out a boiler for the wort. Spent a lot of time reading this week

If you get a 30 or 40l boiler and build a PID then you can easily do BIAB, that’s what I do with an old Burco boiler that I picked up for £25…

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Nice! Personally I think there's a lot of enjoyment and pride to be had from making your own kit and its great way to understand the process.

Incidentally if you're making a mash tun, a good way to collect the liquor at the bottom is to use a length of copper tubing with many thin slots cut across about 1cm apart about halfway through using a fine hacksaw or cutting disk. Slots block less easily than holes...

Also if you think your cool box might be a bit small then look at a 25L plastic bucket with a hot water cylinder insulation round it. In any case if you're heating the mash you're less concerned about heat loss.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

If you get a 30 or 40l boiler and build a PID then you can easily do BIAB, that’s what I do with an old Burco boiler that I picked up for £25…
View attachment 56593
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View attachment 56595

Nice setup Joe :hat:
How do you keep the bag off the element (or isn't that necessary) ?

 

[liams1989]

Nice! Personally I think there's a lot of enjoyment and pride to be had from making your own kit and its great way to understand the process.

Incidentally if you're making a mash tun, a good way to collect the liquor at the bottom is to use a length of copper tubing with many thin slots cut across about 1cm apart about halfway through using a fine hacksaw or cutting disk. Slots block less easily than holes...

Also if you think your cool box might be a bit small then look at a 25L plastic bucket with a hot water cylinder insulation round it. In any case if you're heating the mash you're less concerned about heat loss.

The hot water jacket was another thought I had, especially with reading about how cool boxes only seem to have 5ish mm polystyrene insulation. I mean I could even make a box up with some 90mm celotex and sit the bucket in that.

 

[liams1989]

If you get a 30 or 40l boiler and build a PID then you can easily do BIAB, that’s what I do with an old Burco boiler that I picked up for £25…
View attachment 56593
View attachment 56594
View attachment 56595

This looks a good setup what is a PID please?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

The hot water jacket was another thought I had, especially with reading about how cool boxes only seem to have 5ish mm polystyrene insulation. I mean I could even make a box up with some 90mm celotex and sit the bucket in that.

Yep - the HW tank insulation from screwfix is nice because it's plastic coated which makes it easy to wipe down if (when!) you splash sticky wort over it...
I use it on both my boiler and mash tun (makes the boiler heat up a lot quicker) and hold it in place with nylon luggage straps

 

[liams1989]

Yep - the HW tank insulation from screwfix is nice because it's plastic coated which makes it easy to wipe down if (when!) you splash sticky wort over it...
I use it on both my boiler and mash tun (makes the boiler heat up a lot quicker) and hold it in place with nylon luggage straps

View attachment 56596

Didn’t realise they were this cheap lol

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

This looks a good setup what is a PID please?

A 'PID' is a type of industrial feedback controller (proportional/integral/differential) - although for a simple temperature control setup like this you really only need proportional control

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

PID controllers can also be surprisingly cheap.
Personally if you get one like this I'd recommend replacing that solid state relay (which will be a knock-off) for a proper one from RS or DigiKey etc.

 

[chopps]

View attachment 56593

R2D2 has let himself go a bit!
A shadow of his former self.

 

[liams1989]

PID controllers can also be surprisingly cheap.
Personally if you get one like this I'd recommend replacing that solid state relay (which will be a knock-off) for a proper one from RS or DigiKey etc.

View attachment 56597

Perfect, I’ve been seeing these a lot but wasn’t sure what they were called

 

[crowcrow]

Not to stop anyone making something diy and amazing, do check out the all in one systems like a Klarstein - the 'middle' of the road model is about £200 - I started in a diy route (and still have a 35 litre stock pot I was going to use for biab) but once I started totting up what I needed it was cheaper to get an all in one for me and takes up a lot less room.

That said, if you already have much of what you need or can get it cheaply then I'm sure diy can work out better. I just didn't trust my electrics skills!

 

[stripeyjoe]

How do you keep the bag off the element (or isn't that necessary) ?

I was using a pizza tray from Asda with 70mm bolts as legs, that rusted pretty quickly so I ordered a brewzilla false bottom from AliExpress (£6 I think) and now use that. It sits just above the element. I have a bit of string attached to it so I can pull it out before the boil.
The PID I made from online instructions, it has a cheap 40A SSR which seems to hold out ok with the element the Burco has.

Also agree with @crowcrow that a cheap all in one system is less bother though temp control not as precise.

 

[liams1989]

Not to stop anyone making something diy and amazing, do check out the all in one systems like a Klarstein - the 'middle' of the road model is about £200 - I started in a diy route (and still have a 35 litre stock pot I was going to use for biab) but once I started totting up what I needed it was cheaper to get an all in one for me and takes up a lot less room.

That said, if you already have much of what you need or can get it cheaply then I'm sure diy can work out better. I just didn't trust my electrics skills!

I did look at those, especially with the cost of them compared to say a burco/cygnet boiler being around £90, hop and grain basket prices etc. I’m hopeful I can source a boiler 2nd hand fairy cheaply, if I can’t then I may just wait and get an all in one system like the Klarstein

 

[crowcrow]

Originally I wanted to build one of these Automated All Grain Electric Beer Brewery for 100 €/USD - there is def a million different and great ways to go diy.

If you have any klarstein questions just shout, but I look forward to seeing what you build. Post pics!