I should have thought of that! I’ll get another on tomorrow.
Hazelwood Brewday
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Today I kegged gyle 2150, my first ordinary bitter. This one came out at 3.7%. It looks and smells clean, the flavour is OK at this stage but we’ll see what a week of conditioning can do.
In post #1903 in this thread I started a simple experiment to better understand the impact of carbonation because I need to do a better job of bottling beers. In summary I bottled a couple of beers from keg and added different amounts of priming sugar; one with just enough (0.5g) to compensate for lost carbonation due to the bottling process and to make up the head space volume after I squeezed the bottle to expel the air; the other with a lot more (2g) intended to deliberately over-carbonate the beer. I’m testing a hypothesis that over carbonation is giving my beers a harsh carbonic bitterness.
To these @Leon103 suggested I add a bottle with no priming sugar (thanks Leon). This bottle was slightly different though, I filled this bottle to the rim so I didn’t have to squeeze out any air in the head-space.
One week on and I already have some interesting results…
Initially, the bottle with no priming sugar had the highest pressure (I hadn’t squeezed out the head space leaving a vacuum) but over the last week the other two bottles have been carbonating. The bottle with 0.5g is now at the same pressure as the bottle with no sugar (and no head-space), the bottle with 2g is at a higher pressure.
A squeeze test here is no good for you so I’ve recorded a 15s video where I’ve used sound to demonstrate the pressures.
We’ll see how another week changes things and I’m looking forward to seeing how the various beer qualities are affected - carbonation, head, head retention, body, flavour, aroma,…
To these @Leon103 suggested I add a bottle with no priming sugar (thanks Leon). This bottle was slightly different though, I filled this bottle to the rim so I didn’t have to squeeze out any air in the head-space.
One week on and I already have some interesting results…
Initially, the bottle with no priming sugar had the highest pressure (I hadn’t squeezed out the head space leaving a vacuum) but over the last week the other two bottles have been carbonating. The bottle with 0.5g is now at the same pressure as the bottle with no sugar (and no head-space), the bottle with 2g is at a higher pressure.
A squeeze test here is no good for you so I’ve recorded a 15s video where I’ve used sound to demonstrate the pressures.
We’ll see how another week changes things and I’m looking forward to seeing how the various beer qualities are affected - carbonation, head, head retention, body, flavour, aroma,…
So the different sounds enable you to know what the pressure is? I can't get my head around that, but it's fascinating what you're doing! Very intrigued!
That’s right. It’s like a drum skin, the tighter the skin the higher pitched the sound. In this case it’s the pressure that’s pushing out the walls of the bottle and tightening them. Try it with a bottle of fizzy drink - give it a shake, loosen the cap just enough for the gas to escape slowly and tap the bottle with a spoon. You’ll hear the tone drop in pitch as the pressure drops.
Wow. As my dad used to say - "you know too much clog!" 
My dad was born in 1939, so very old fashioned bless him.
Going to try that, thanks HB!
My dad was born in 1939, so very old fashioned bless him. Going to try that, thanks HB!
Lynx Brewery
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I notice, H, that you purge all of the air from your plastic bottles after filling them.
I’m clueless with the physics involved but could one of the causes of the over carbonisation issue be caused by that.
I only bottle in glass bottles and always leave about 2 or 3 cm of headspace before I seal them. I imagine that some of the pressure resulting from the bottle conditioning will be taken up by this air being compressed (rather than all of it being absorbed into the beer, if there is no headspace)
I’m clueless with the physics involved but could one of the causes of the over carbonisation issue be caused by that.
I only bottle in glass bottles and always leave about 2 or 3 cm of headspace before I seal them. I imagine that some of the pressure resulting from the bottle conditioning will be taken up by this air being compressed (rather than all of it being absorbed into the beer, if there is no headspace)
Hi LB! Thanks for your suggestion but I’m sorry to say the over-carbonation is really all down to me. When bottling from keg the beer is already carbonated but I can’t resist adding a little priming sugar to the bottle too. I think the bottom line is that I shouldn’t and this experiment is to test this idea.
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H
Have you still got a bottle of pennies imperial stout lurking about. I am interested on how it's aged. Thinking of brewing a version of it myself
Have you still got a bottle of pennies imperial stout lurking about. I am interested on how it's aged. Thinking of brewing a version of it myself
I have
I got another batch of my Best Bitter brewed today and in the fermenter. All went well so I’m hoping for a good batch. It needs to be too, this is the beer that’s going to the Scottish National next month.
When this one comes out of the fermenter in 12 days I can turn up the heat and get another Saison & Trappist Single brewed.
When this one comes out of the fermenter in 12 days I can turn up the heat and get another Saison & Trappist Single brewed.
It’s been a couple of weeks now since I bottled some Mild with differing quantities of priming sugar (0g, 0.5g, 2g) and tonight I’m trying them. The pressurisation is much the same as last week and I posted the results from that.
I’m starting with the two that had priming sugar added. I tried to pour both the same - fairly slowly down the side of a tilted glass.
No surprises here, the one with more priming sugar produced more of a head and gave a louder hiss on opening.
Head retention is a little better with the more highly carbonated beer bring fed by a constant stream of tiny bubbles. A gentle swirl of the glass created a foam quickly on the more carbonated beer where it made little difference with the other beer.
The aroma is stronger from the more carbonated beer but it also seems lighter than the lower carbonated beer which although not as strong does seem more inviting - maybe like the difference between dark muscovado and light muscovado?
The flavour of the lower carbonated beer is pretty much what I expected and the mouthfeel is light. The finish is fairly dry but leaves your lips just a little tacky. There is no lingering bitterness. The more highly carbonated beer is fizzy in the mouth and quickly foams up. The impression is of a lighter beer and there is a slightly odd taste which might even be slightly soapy? The finish is really dry and the tackiness on the lips is replaced with a squeaky clean dryness. After half a pint of this one I feel bloated and belching like a trooper!!
I finished by opening the bottle with no added sugar and it was pretty much the same as the bottle with 0.5g of priming sugar.
So I have some results that I hope will help when bottling beers to send to other people and into competitions. I now intend to try bottling from keg with no additional priming sugar. Apologies in advance to anyone receiving a flat beer from me!
I’m starting with the two that had priming sugar added. I tried to pour both the same - fairly slowly down the side of a tilted glass.
No surprises here, the one with more priming sugar produced more of a head and gave a louder hiss on opening.
Head retention is a little better with the more highly carbonated beer bring fed by a constant stream of tiny bubbles. A gentle swirl of the glass created a foam quickly on the more carbonated beer where it made little difference with the other beer.
The aroma is stronger from the more carbonated beer but it also seems lighter than the lower carbonated beer which although not as strong does seem more inviting - maybe like the difference between dark muscovado and light muscovado?
The flavour of the lower carbonated beer is pretty much what I expected and the mouthfeel is light. The finish is fairly dry but leaves your lips just a little tacky. There is no lingering bitterness. The more highly carbonated beer is fizzy in the mouth and quickly foams up. The impression is of a lighter beer and there is a slightly odd taste which might even be slightly soapy? The finish is really dry and the tackiness on the lips is replaced with a squeaky clean dryness. After half a pint of this one I feel bloated and belching like a trooper!!
I finished by opening the bottle with no added sugar and it was pretty much the same as the bottle with 0.5g of priming sugar.
So I have some results that I hope will help when bottling beers to send to other people and into competitions. I now intend to try bottling from keg with no additional priming sugar. Apologies in advance to anyone receiving a flat beer from me!
This morning I kegged my latest version of Best Bitter. I had feedback that my last batch was a bit thin so this batch had higher alkalinity and more salts, was mashed at a higher temperature and I added a little more grain to compensate for a higher FG. The result is a beer with more body but it is also sweeter out of the fermenter. I’ll see how it conditions over the next week or two but might get another batch on in the meantime mashed at a temperature in between this and the previous batch. I need something I can send to the Scottish Nationals in January.
It is nice and clean though so I may well be drinking it from tomorrow!
It is nice and clean though so I may well be drinking it from tomorrow!
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I've read a few of your recipes but can't find an example at the moment! I seem to remember you add the dark malts at the end of the mash to reduce astringency, how long do you typically mash the dark malts for? I'm doing an oatmeal stout with roasted and chocolate malt, would you typically bung them in for the last 20 mins?
Cheers
Cheers
My recipes are in the “Media” section though I do post an occasional link to them.
Yes, 10-20 minutes at the end of the mash is what I typically do with roast malts (30-40mins for dark crystal). If you want to put in the effort you can alternatively cold-steep by soaking the dark roast grains overnight. This is kind of like cold-pressed coffee.
I thought it might be a good idea to move the discussion to my own thread…
Now I’ve worked up the recipe it will be 250g of hops to keep bitterness at the level I want, about 42 IBUs.
Yes the hops will be dumped with the grain and there will be a mash-out. From the information I’ve found extraction should be about 10% of the equivalent duration at 100C. This should give me the bitterness I want just from the mash so I won’t need to put the hops in the boil. I’m using leaf specifically so they can be removed, pellets would disintegrate and end up in the boil giving me something undrinkable.
I was planning to reduce the boil time and will probably go to 30 mins. I’ll also save time on the hopstand as there won’t be one and save oxidation risk from dry-hopping as I won’t be doing that either. If it works this approach has several benefits!
I do have a brew-day today because I want to brew another bitter. If I have time, and if my leaf Galaxy hops arrive today, I will also get this beer on the go.
I’m sparging the bitter at the moment and the postie has just brought me a delivery. Now that’s a decent AA! Looks like I might be on for a double brew-day
That is true but this is a beer I know well and I think I will be better able to assess the flavour and aroma, and the intensity of these against a “standard”. I won’t consider it a waste of money as long as I learn something from it - even if that lesson is don’t do this!
Todays batch of bitter is in the fermentation cabinet and I’m now mashing the experimental Summer Breeze (just one hop addition in the mash).
My grain basket is seriously challenged with 5Kg grain and another 250g of hops in the mash. pH is 5.3 so I’m happy with that. Gravity is lower than I’d normally expect at this point, maybe because the basket is just too full. I may just give it a bit longer and see where we end up.
My grain basket is seriously challenged with 5Kg grain and another 250g of hops in the mash. pH is 5.3 so I’m happy with that. Gravity is lower than I’d normally expect at this point, maybe because the basket is just too full. I may just give it a bit longer and see where we end up.
