Have I screwed 120 pints

[peebee]

Back in the year dot (80s?) there was no Internet brewing forums full of scare stories and talk about "esters" (what's an ester - that needed a trip to the library). Home-brewers had one or two books (published 60-70s) and figured it out for themselves. One thing I'd figured out was I could get more consistent beer by brewing at 27-28C! No temperature control, I just pitched at that temperature and the resultant raging fermentation maintained the warmth. I would have started using Nottingham, or more likely Windsor, yeast even back then (Danstar also did two other "English" yeasts, but they dropped them and I don't remember what fanciful English town name they had for them back then - anyone else know?).

Okay, home-brewing equipment was cruder and it was a benefit just getting the fermentation finished in three days. But back then fermenting at 32C would have resulted in the expectation of even better beer, not in plans to throw it away.

Times change. I've a new brewery now and ferment at 17-18C (still within 3 days). I do brew better beer, but that's down to lots of other changes, not necessarily the fermentation temperature.

 

[Sadfield]

Times change. I've a new brewery now and ferment at 17-18C (still within 3 days). I do brew better beer, but that's down to lots of other changes, not fermentation temperature.

Keep telling yourself that. Whilst not fermenting at 32c. Maybe your upturn in quality is a sum of all factors, including a consistent and lower fermentation temperature.

It's pretty well documented way back to the last century that higher fermentation temperatures can increase levels of fusel alcohols, diacetyl, esters and phenols. Whilst not always detrimental, and sometimes desired in some style, implying that fermentation temperature won't impact quality is down right misleadingly.



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[pms67]

Back in the year dot (80s?) there was no Internet brewing forums full of scare stories and talk about "esters" (what's an ester - that needed a trip to the library). Home-brewers had one or two books (published 60-70s) and figured it out for themselves. One thing I'd figured out was I could get more consistent beer by brewing at 27-28C! No temperature control, I just pitched at that temperature and the resultant raging fermentation maintained the warmth. I would have started using Nottingham, or more likely Windsor, yeast even back then (Danstar also did two other "English" yeasts, but they dropped them and I don't remember what fanciful English town name they had for them back then - anyone else know?).

Okay, home-brewing equipment was cruder and it was a benefit just getting the fermentation finished in three days. But back then fermenting at 32C would have resulted in the expectation of even better beer, not in plans to throw it away.

Times change. I've a new brewery now and ferment at 17-18C (still within 3 days). I do brew better beer, but that's down to lots of other changes, not fermentation temperature.

How do you manage to ferment in 3 days at 17c ?
Mines can take 7-10 days and I’ve a brewfridge too

 

[Sadfield]

Over pitching yeast will probably do it. It will also lead to an initially cleaner ferment, which may explain the perception of lower impact of high fermentation temperature.

From WYEAST

High pitch rates can lead to:

Very low ester production

Very fast fermentations

Thin or lacking body/mouthfeel

Autolysis (Yeasty flavors due to lysing of cells)



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[MyQul]

Over pitching yeast will probably do it. It will also lead to an initially cleaner ferment, which may explain the perception of lower impact of high fermentation temperature.

From WYEAST

High pitch rates can lead to:

Very low ester production

Very fast fermentations

Thin or lacking body/mouthfeel

Autolysis (Yeasty flavors due to lysing of cells)



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Over pitching is also one of the 'tricks' of making pseudo lagers. Big pitch as cool as you're able, to mimic the long, low temp ferment of a true lager

 

[peebee]

Q.E.D.

Best go with the "Peddler of Doom" and tip all the beer away. My efforts to not make folk feel so miserable because they had a little mishap by relating to an earlier time when there wasn't so many "mistakes" to be made may be a bit unhelpful? What's needed is a good lecture to explain why you can never make good beer and best jack it all in.

The other option is just try and wean off brewing forums. Your hobby will become a lot less traumatic.

 

[peebee]

How do you manage to ferment in 3 days at 17c ?
Mines can take 7-10 days and I’ve a brewfridge too

Sorry, haven't a clue, it just does. Perhaps it's as Sadeyes says and I over-pitch with yeast? Odd though, until very recently when I started messing with liquid yeasts I could read the packet and it said "dosage: 11.5g in 20 to 30 litres" (1 packet = 11.5g).

 

[Sadfield]

Q.E.D.

Best go with the "Peddler of Doom" and tip all the beer away. My efforts to not make folk feel so miserable because they had a little mishap by relating to an earlier time when there wasn't so many "mistakes" to be made may be a bit unhelpful? What's needed is a good lecture to explain why you can never make good beer and best jack it all in.

The other option is just try and wean off brewing forums. Your hobby will become a lot less traumatic.

I'll go with this.

No one has said to tip anything away. In fact, all the advice given is that the beer will probably be OK. Some have rightly pointed out that the flavour profile may have elevated levels of esters due to the higher fermentation temperature. If you had read any brewing literature, post 1970, you would know this to be widely accepted. There's a saying, "Brewers make wort, yeast make beer", highlighting how critical the fermentation process is, with temperature being part of that.

You however are from a simpler time when there wasn't so many "mistakes" to be made, when you expected a better outcome by fermenting at 35C, based in the knowledge from a couple of books. No, wait. You're on an internet forum giving out fermentation advice whilst proclaiming you don't know what an ester is, and stating you ferment at 17-18C with the outcome of brewing better beer. All rather contradictory and confused?

"What's needed is a good lecture to explain why you can never make good beer and best jack it all in." Good beer is easily achievable if you aren't given erroneous advice. However, I'm guessing the lecture worked though, as you have felt the need to edit your original post.

 

[peebee]

Oh dear, more clarification to what I said above. I don't want to be responsible for giving anyone the wrong idea, which I seem to have done to poor old Sadeyes (sorry I mean Sadfield; I watch to much "Madagascar" on TV!) who has got his knickers well and truly in a twist and is coming out with some fanciful quotes.

I DO NOT condone running fermentations at ridiculously high temperatures (27-28C or more). Please, don't do it! But if accidentally the fermentation has reached high temperatures my experiences from a more naïve time would urge you not to write off the beer because of it: It might well come out perfectly drinkable (perhaps not competition-worthy, but drinkable!).

 

[Sadfield]

Ha Ha, I would ordinarily respond with, touché. However, you'd probably just view it as a reference to a cartoon turtle, Dum Dum.

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[Gunge]

I'm fairly new to all this temp control malarkey - all I've got to say from my experience is that a stable fermentation temp - not too high or too low - is a GOOD THING. But this cold-crashing business ain't what it's cracked up to be. I'm not going to bother with it any more; can't see any benefit and the yeast can't be best pleased with being mucked around like that. I know I certainly wouldn't.

 

[Slid]

Unfortunately, I am reminded of something my 20 YO daughter says to her mother - that would be SWMBO. It goes something like:

"You (two) seriously need to calm TF (as a daughter, she will say these words out loud, whether her dad approves or not) Down".

To put this into the proximate context, I very much doubt you arguing over anything of real significance to either of you, so drop it, please.

 

[peebee]

Unfortunately, I am reminded of something my 20 YO daughter says to her mother - that would be SWMBO. It goes something like:

"You (two) seriously need to calm TF (as a daughter, she will say these words out loud, whether her dad approves or not) Down".

To put this into the proximate context, I very much doubt you arguing over anything of real significance to either of you, so drop it, please.

Sorry Slid if I have this interpreted this wrong as I'm going back a couple of days. So my response is kept equally as cryptic:

Picture Copyright of Jan Fennel? http://janfennellthedoglistener.com/blog/Jan/shutting-the-stable-door-after-the-horse-has-bolted-417

 

[Sadfield]

Unfortunately, I am reminded of something my 20 YO daughter says to her mother - that would be SWMBO. It goes something like:

"You (two) seriously need to calm TF (as a daughter, she will say these words out loud, whether her dad approves or not) Down".

To put this into the proximate context, I very much doubt you arguing over anything of real significance to either of you, so drop it, please.

Where's the fun in that?

https://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

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[Slid]

Where's the fun in that?

https://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

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Yes I remember that sketch all right.

"An argument isn't just contradiction"

"Can be" :lol:

Gone back in my box now.

 

[GerritT]

I'm fairly new to all this temp control malarkey - all I've got to say from my experience is that a stable fermentation temp - not too high or too low - is a GOOD THING. But this cold-crashing business ain't what it's cracked up to be. I'm not going to bother with it any more; can't see any benefit and the yeast can't be best pleased with being mucked around like that. I know I certainly wouldn't.

Now, hear me out. My books say cold crashing compacts the **** on the bottom, makes it easier to transfer. So one brew ago I moved the bucket 5 meters, onto the balcony. Few days later I transfered it and it was CLEAR. All the peeps from the brewing course said so. Two minutes of extra work, worth the while I say.

 

[Marsie]

Lol excellent idea! CP. A couple of perforated wooden shelves with legs between and it's sorted.

 

[peebee]

... (Danstar also did two other "English" yeasts, but they dropped them and I don't remember what fanciful English town name they had for them back then - anyone else know?). ...

This question never got answered at the time, but I've just stumbled on the answer elsewhere...

The two dropped yeasts were:

LONDON
MANCHESTER

Apparently the "London" yeast has been resurrected as the "new" LONDON ESB yeast.

The yeasts probably were available in 1988 after Lallemand created the new company "Danstar". "Windsor" and "Nottingham" yeast still exist from that time.

 

[timw]

I had the same problem - when dry hopping after 2 weeks, maybe a little more, fermenting. the temp probe came out the fridge as it wasn't stuck properly in the bubble wrap pocket i have on the sides of my fermenting bins. the temperature went wayyyyyy up over the course of 10 days continual heating. no idea what it got to.as I suspect the tubular heater has a cut off inbuilt, but it was bloody warm when I came to bottle and realised the mistake. I too though I may have ruined it but it turned out fine. not the best of brews but entirely drinkable. yours should be fine