Have a go at simple AG

[clib]

This thread got me started with AG, and I now have about 15 AG brews under my belt, now using an All in One.
What I have come to learn recently via the UK National comp feedback and my latest brew, is that just as much care is needed at the fermentation stage as anywhere else in the brewday. It embarrasses me to admit that previously, once the boil was done, I just breathed a huge sigh of releif and "chucked in some yeast". As I result, in hindsight, many of my brews have suffered - some more than others.
A member of my local club recently sold me their yeast starter kit (stir plate and flask) and I have made a promise to myself that I will jolly well use it from now on. There's no point going to the effort of a brew day then getting lazy with arguably the most important bit.
As someone in my club said, "Brewers make wort, yeast makes beer".

I think the fermentation stage is unarguably the most important bit, and requires the most attention and understanding - though in reality we should give equal attention to all stages as a matter of discipline I think. But I would rather add cold water to a can of hopped extract in a big bucket and then choose a yeast and make a starter to hit high krausen on brewday and sanitise my fermentation equipment very carefully and manage the beer through fermentation according to the needs of the yeast than make an all grain beer, chuck a packet of generic dried yeast into it and walk away for two weeks. I would feel a lot more confident with the first scenario, and more hopeful.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

make an all grain beer, chuck a packet of generic dried yeast into it and walk away for two weeks.

Have you been spying on me...?

 

[Twopan]

Just got my biab set up from Get er brewed,with a belfast blonde ale all grain kit. Plus the extract kit.
Wish me luck!

I started AG brewing recently using BIAB. I have learned several things quite quickly so if any of these help...
1. Low efficiency was my biggest problem. I retrospectively plumbed the numbers into the Brewers Friend calculator which showed I was only hitting 50%. I ended up adding extract to get the gravity up.
2. Solution is to add the grain into the submerged bag (in a brew kettle) and stir regularly during the mash so the grain isn't congealed and free moving
3. Boil a few kettles and add water to second vessel - the bin you will ferment in is ideal. After mash time dunk the bag in this sparge water, stir again and leave for 10 minutes
4.lift bag and leave to drain over the kettle. A large diameter colander works well for this and you can leave the bag to drain under its own weight. You can squeeze a bit to accelerate the process.
5. Add the sparge water back to the kettle
6. Check your pre-boil gravity, allowing for temperature adjustment and whether there are any late additions going in e.g candi sugar at the end of the boil. The brewers friend recipe calculator will tell you this in the recipe builder. If you're still a bit under target gravity at this stage it's easier to add some extract in the 'hot' stage
7. Top up to target boil volume if necessary
8. Take your time! An AG brew takes up most of a day!
9. Take notes each time which will help you accurately calculate future grain bills, boil-off losses etc
Hope this helps. I now make Belgian ales in this way and am delighted with the authenticity of the results, and my BIAB efficiency is over 70%.

 

[clib]

I started AG brewing recently using BIAB. I have learned several things quite quickly so if any of these help...
1. Low efficiency was my biggest problem. I retrospectively plumbed the numbers into the Brewers Friend calculator which showed I was only hitting 50%. I ended up adding extract to get the gravity up.
2. Solution is to add the grain into the submerged bag (in a brew kettle) and stir regularly during the mash so the grain isn't congealed and free moving
3. Boil a few kettles and add water to second vessel - the bin you will ferment in is ideal. After mash time dunk the bag in this sparge water, stir again and leave for 10 minutes
4.lift bag and leave to drain over the kettle. A large diameter colander works well for this and you can leave the bag to drain under its own weight. You can squeeze a bit to accelerate the process.
5. Add the sparge water back to the kettle
6. Check your pre-boil gravity, allowing for temperature adjustment and whether there are any late additions going in e.g candi sugar at the end of the boil. The brewers friend recipe calculator will tell you this in the recipe builder. If you're still a bit under target gravity at this stage it's easier to add some extract in the 'hot' stage
7. Top up to target boil volume if necessary
8. Take your time! An AG brew takes up most of a day!
9. Take notes each time which will help you accurately calculate future grain bills, boil-off losses etc
Hope this helps. I now make Belgian ales in this way and am delighted with the authenticity of the results, and my BIAB efficiency is over 70%.

I stir the mash in well at the start. I stir at mashout when I raise the mash temp into the high 70s. No stirring in between. I get 80 to 90% efficiency. I've been doing it for years obviously. Great you're over 70% now.

I sprinkle sparge water through the grain in the colander rather than using a separate vessel.

My stovetop brews range from 12 to 18 litres and I have reduced the time significantly. I usually hit flame out arounx 2 hours after filling the kettle with mash water. I have reduced mash and boil times for most beers, and I don't do a fixed temperature mash. I raise from 40/50C slowly to high 70s. I believe it's an old technique stemming from lack of temperature control (using fire or hot stones!) and that Saison Dupont is mashed this way.

Cheers for the feedback. Happy brewing.

 

[Twopan]

Thanks for this @clib (and @Agentgonzo) and I remember well your help when I was starting out here. Interesting that you raise the temperature of the mash in the kettle to the high 70's - I hadn't thought of that, assuming you had to use new water for the hotter sparge. I guess all one is doing is getting the last of the sugars out with the higher temperature. I'll try that next time, and then trickle new water through the bag in a colander. I should have added that I find a lower temperature for the mash - 62 - and longer - 90 minutes - may make a difference. I've learned that a few degrees lower but longer gets more sugar out and produces a drier finish, which I prefer. What fun this all is!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I find a lower temperature for the mash [...] gets more sugar out and produces a drier finish, which I prefer

That's absolutely right: reducing the mash temperature means that more of the starch-to-sugar conversion gets done by beta amylase. This produces a higher proportion of simple sugars in your wort, which the yeast can fully metabolise to give you less residual sweetness (and more alcohol).

 

[clib]

Thanks for this @clib (and @Agentgonzo) and I remember well your help when I was starting out here. Interesting that you raise the temperature of the mash in the kettle to the high 70's - I hadn't thought of that, assuming you had to use new water for the hotter sparge. I guess all one is doing is getting the last of the sugars out with the higher temperature. I'll try that next time, and then trickle new water through the bag in a colander. I should have added that I find a lower temperature for the mash - 62 - and longer - 90 minutes - may make a difference. I've learned that a few degrees lower but longer gets more sugar out and produces a drier finish, which I prefer. What fun this all is!

Raising the temp of the mash is what full volume BIAB brewers do, cos they don't have no sparge!

 

[klaus]

Decided to do a small batch based on the original recipe which started this thread. More really to try out my new shiny 15l pot (nothing special) and do a brew on an induction hot plate we got a while ago.
Just used what I had available, continuing in the saison spirit. Here it goes, for a gallon:

• 1kg Crisp MO pale malt
• 30g Target hops
• ½ packet CML “Lille Saison” yeast

Did a 40 minute boil, 10g Target at start and 20g Target at 35 minutes, cooled down to c.25C in the kitchen sink, taking about 30 minutes. OG came out at 1.040. Pitched the yeast and started bubbling slowly after a couple of hours. No idea how this will turn out but going by my first two saisons hope to be pleasantly surprised.

The induction hob (2800w) worked well, faster than I anticipated, so will give that a go again soon. It’s really for the kitchen, but heyho, we are doing kitchen brews.

 

[klaus]

Quick update on the saison - just bottled this batch after a week .... first couple of days it was bubbling away like a world champion, from day 3 it was more or less dead, a bubble a minute. The ABV ended at c.4%. Did see reports that saison yeast can work very quick, especially at higher temps, though on average didn't get it higher than 21C. But tastes really nice, hoppy and malty is an understatement. And a very light colour, hopefully turning to goldenish (see pic - the bottle label is just coincidence - don't bother with taking off labels).

 

[clib]

Quick update on the saison - just bottled this batch after a week .... first couple of days it was bubbling away like a world champion, from day 3 it was more or less dead, a bubble a minute. The ABV ended at c.4%. Did see reports that saison yeast can work very quick, especially at higher temps, though on average didn't get it higher than 21C. But tastes really nice, hoppy and malty is an understatement. And a very light colour, hopefully turning to goldenish (see pic - the bottle label is just coincidence - don't bother with taking off labels).

Did you measure the final gravity?

 

[klaus]

Did you measure the final gravity?

Yes, came out at 1.009, with OG 1.040 makes it about 4%. Only took one reading couple of days ago and I had to move the DJ to a colder spot until today for space reasons.

 

[clib]

Yes, came out at 1.009, with OG 1.040 makes it about 4%. Only took one reading couple of days ago and I had to move the DJ to a colder spot until today for space reasons.

ok. That's a 77.5% reduction gravity. CML says 77-84% and a week is not a long time so keep an eye on it - it may ferment more in the bottle. These kinds of yeasts can slow right down but keep fermenting away very slowly.

 

[klaus]

I posted this in another thread - 5L Brown ale AG kit:
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/what-did-you-brew-today.64550/page-302#post-1209765

 

[garthlandbrew]

The First AG brew is happily bubbling away in the fermenter as we speak! Done it yesterday. It was messy but great fun. Lots learned along the way.
Recipe:

• 3L of our finest Scottish council juice in the brew vessel, another 3L for sparging, in the end it boiled down to around 4.5L
• 1kg Maris Otter
• 5g Citra at boil
• 10g Citra at 55m

Pitched 7g of Youngs dry active yeast.

One of my biggest challenges was keeping the mash at 67 degrees. After heating it, my thermometer said 70, great, then after wrapping it with a towel it dipped to 60, so I put the heat on, and it then shot to 73. It was a dance that I'm sure I could avoid if I had just got the temp right the first time (or got a better thermometer!)

Starting OG was 1.045; it's down to 1.041 now.
Very happy because I get to try out a new toy; I got myself an iSpindle after I prematurely bottled an extract brew.

 

[clib]

The First AG brew is happily bubbling away in the fermenter as we speak! Done it yesterday. It was messy but great fun. Lots learned along the way.
Recipe:

• 3L of our finest Scottish council juice in the brew vessel, another 3L for sparging, in the end it boiled down to around 4.5L
• 1kg Maris Otter
• 5g Citra at boil
• 10g Citra at 55m

Pitched 7g of Youngs dry active yeast.

One of my biggest challenges was keeping the mash at 67 degrees. After heating it, my thermometer said 70, great, then after wrapping it with a towel it dipped to 60, so I put the heat on, and it then shot to 73. It was a dance that I'm sure I could avoid if I had just got the temp right the first time (or got a better thermometer!)

Starting OG was 1.045; it's down to 1.041 now.
Very happy because I get to try out a new toy; I got myself an iSpindle after I prematurely bottled an extract brew.

View attachment 84550

Congrats. Possibly the first brewer ever to use an iSpindle in their first all grain brew!

Maintaining a mash temp is tricky with small volumes. Nowadays I mash in my stove top brews below 60C with all the water in the mash. Rather than try to hold a temperature I just put it on the lowest heat setting and let it rise very slowly to 78 ish, stir well and remove the grain.

 

[garthlandbrew]

Congrats. Possibly the first brewer ever to use an iSpindle in their first all grain brew!

Maintaining a mash temp is tricky with small volumes. Nowadays I mash in my stove top brews below 60C witb all the water in the mash. Rather than try to gold a temperature I just put it on the lowest heat setting and let it rise very slowly to 78 ish, stir well and remove the grain.

That's a solid idea! Start at 60ish, set the stove to the lowest heat setting, and just leave it for the hour. I read somewhere that if you keep your mash at 75degrees+, there's a chance of a 'mash-out', I think they called it. That won't be a problem if it's at the end of your mash!

One for next time :)

 

[clib]

That's a solid idea! Start at 60ish, set the stove to the lowest heat setting, and just leave it for the hour. I read somewhere that if you keep your mash at 75degrees+, there's a chance of a 'mash-out', I think they called it. That won't be a problem if it's at the end of your mash!

One for next time :)

Keep an eye on it as it may take less than hour. And 30 minutes is generally enough anyway.

 

[garthlandbrew]

Luckily I'm measuring the gravity - it seems the brew has stalled out at around 1.023, although it's only been 2 days.

I think it was due to the high mash temp reducing the amount of fermentables. The 0.02 drop in a day seems a bit steep, too. Wonder what happened here! Will keep this going for the next week or so to see where it goes.

 

[Rwilts]

Luckily I'm measuring the gravity - it seems the brew has stalled out at around 1.023, although it's only been 2 days.

I think it was due to the high mash temp reducing the amount of fermentables. The 0.02 drop in a day seems a bit steep, too. Wonder what happened here! Will keep this going for the next week or so to see where it goes.

Ispindel is notoriously bad at readings after 1.020 . I love mine and use it every brew but find it never gets down to actual gravity

 

[Nottsbeer]

Luckily I'm measuring the gravity - it seems the brew has stalled out at around 1.023, although it's only been 2 days.

I think it was due to the high mash temp reducing the amount of fermentables. The 0.02 drop in a day seems a bit steep, too. Wonder what happened here! Will keep this going for the next week or so to see where it goes.

As @Rwilts notes, mine also never gets to the FG. They collect gunk and slowly lose their calibration. I love it for the reassurance fermentation is going well, and for knowing when things have stopped. Mine is generally 5pts high at the end. Enjoy