Have a go at simple AG

[Dave 666]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but as my pot is 15 litre, the FV 20 litre and the brew target being around the 10 litre mark. Well if the projected ABV is higher than I'd really like, is there any reason I cant simply add more water at some stage of the process to give a bigger brew?. Be it in the FV after boiling or at the boil stage seeing as I do have a smaller several litre stock pot so could split into 2 pots at that point?.

I don't want to over complicate my first AG effort, but more wandering if simply adding more water at some stage of the process to give a bigger brew is possible?. Would doing such a thing affect the overall taste and flavour much?.

 

[Martybhoy]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but as my pot is 15 litre, the FV 20 litre and the brew target being around the 10 litre mark. Well if the projected ABV is higher than I'd really like, is there any reason I cant simply add more water at some stage of the process to give a bigger brew?. Be it in the FV after boiling or at the boil stage seeing as I do have a smaller several litre stock pot so could split into 2 pots at that point?.

I don't want to over complicate my first AG effort, but more wandering if simply adding more water at some stage of the process to give a bigger brew is possible?. Would doing such a thing affect the overall taste and flavour much?.

Absolutely you can do that. Liquoring back it's called. I use un-opened bottled spring water from the fridge, which also helps cool the wort a little, if you wait till you under 25°C or so. You'll find a dilution calculator in Beer Smith or Brewers Friend

 

[Martybhoy]

In fact, I believe you could intentionally make the abv higher (more grain, same amount of water) for this very purpose.

 

[GerritT]

In fact, I believe you could intentionally make the abv higher (more grain, same amount of water) for this very purpose.

A bit. As long as you keep enough water to extract enough bitter from the hops, and the mash liquid enough. Two liters per kilo of grain, and occasionally stirring to avoid hotspots, should be possible.

 

[Dave 666]

So is it better to add the extra water at the boiling stage, cooling stage or just add to the FV to get a desired volume?. Adding at the boiling stage would be problematic I'd have thought seeing as it would be difficult to calculate what you'd ultimately lose during that boil if your looking for a specific brew volume?.

Could I assume be used well to speed up cooling as Martybhoy1980 suggests?.

 

[Martybhoy]

As long as you're happy that your water is sanitary, I'd add to final cooling stage, or FV.

 

[GerritT]

Cooling stage, to take advantage of the low temperature.

 

[Dave 666]

A bit. As long as you keep enough water to extract enough bitter from the hops, and the mash liquid enough. Two liters per kilo of grain, and occasionally stirring to avoid hotspots, should be possible.

Interesting, my main pot is 15 litres, so strictly speaking such a sized pot could handle as much as 6kg of grain?, though for grain volume I'm guessing something like 5kg of grain is the most that's practical?.

If I do go down the road of a more concentrated mix to add water to (either this brew or the next), think I'll do as suggested, use bottled water chilled. Cheap enough, 25p odd for 2 litres I think. Doubt I'd want to add to much if I do it this time seeing as I've only bought 3.5kg, 3kg Maris Otter & 500g of Crushed Crystal.

 

[Dave 666]

Well all underway, 10 litre of water at the start in my 15 litre pot. At this point I'm thinking will the pot handle all the grain to?. Added to that, 3kg Maris Otter and 250g Crystal, noting the mix surface is about 3 inch from the top of the pot. I'm actually now aiming for a 15 litre brew, which based on grain quantities aught to give a steady 5.03% ABV ale. Mixed and temp is 70c, wrapped for the next hour or so.

But will be interesting to see what liquid I end up with once I've drained the grain as that will clearly dictate how much I add when the grain goes back in the pot as I figure I'll likely not really get much more than 12-13 litres at the most in the pot for the boil. Maybe I'll end up with around the 10 litre mark after the boil, remains to be seen. But unsure of how much extra water I can really add during the cooling stage unless simply add whatever is required to get the volume up to 15 litres.

 

[GerritT]

Here you go sir: https://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

 

[Dave 666]

Here you go sir: https://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

Thanks for that, but I'm slightly confused using that calculator as I think it maybe requires the volume and gravity based on what's left after the boil, no confusion in that itself of cause. But the confusing part is since I know my target volume I can make a sensible guess on how much water I can add during cooling knowing the pot size. And if I'm still a little out once into the FV that has the volume marked on the side, well can I not then simply add a little more water again to get to the required volume?.

Of cause I could be missing the point or not fully understanding something here I don't know?. As the calculator does suggest to correctly (if 100ml difference) add the right amount of water to get what the target volume gravity should be if it were 10 litre of wart with say 1077 were the target 15 litre volume SG is supposed to be 1051.

If the gravity really needs to be known before adding the extra water then is it not better to wait until cooled to say 20c as I'd simply be guessing on what the gravity is before adding the water (as in something might have gone wrong extraction wise) and could end up with something completely different gravity wise?. Unless I can just add part of the extra water to cool quicker and then check the gravity?.

Sorry, probably over thinking this now lol.

 

[MyQul]

Thanks for that, but I'm slightly confused using that calculator as I think it maybe requires the volume and gravity based on what's left after the boil, no confusion in that itself of cause. 1) But the confusing part is since I know my target volume I can make a sensible guess on how much water I can add during cooling knowing the pot size. And if I'm still a little out once into the FV that has the volume marked on the side, well can I not then simply add a little more water again to get to the required volume?.

Of cause I could be missing the point or not fully understanding something here I don't know?. As the calculator does suggest to correctly (if 100ml difference) add the right amount of water to get what the target volume gravity should be if it were 10 litre of wart with say 1077 were the target 15 litre volume SG is supposed to be 1051.

2) If the gravity really needs to be known before adding the extra water then is it not better to wait until cooled to say 20c as I'd simply be guessing on what the gravity is before adding the water (as in something might have gone wrong extraction wise) and could end up with something completely different gravity wise?. Unless I can just add part of the extra water to cool quicker and then check the gravity?.

Sorry, probably over thinking this now lol.

1)Yes, but if you havent hit your target efficiency during the mash, you could be diluting the wort more than you want and get a lower OG - unless you know what your gravity is to start out with
2) Yes, it's best to wait till you're wort is cool before taking a gravity reading. Although you can get gravity calcs that can adjust for different temps

 

[Dave 666]

1)Yes, but if you havent hit your target efficiency during the mash, you could be diluting the wort more than you want and get a lower OG - unless you know what your gravity is to start out with
2) Yes, it's best to wait till you're wort is cool before taking a gravity reading. Although you can get gravity calcs that can adjust for different temps

Thanks, think I'll likely wait until the wort is cooled then.

The grain drain took far longer than I expected, had to grab a couple of big pans to put the grain in once drained (in stages), as I never accounted for not all the grain would fit on top of the FV at once (over secured muslin) during this stage lol. To account for the extra grain I let it sit for more like 100 mins. The wort drain gave me about 5.8 litres, from what was a 10 litre water mix. So the grain has retained a lot of water. I put 9 litres in when going to the next stage and letting it sit for about 30 mins or so. More efficient draining of the grain might get maybe 7-8 litres from the 9 litre mix seeing as the grain has clearly retained a lot of the water the first time.

Any more than an extra 7 litres of wort and I might have to split the boil into 2 pots, all hail the small 7 litre pot if so lol.

 

[MyQul]

Thanks, think I'll likely wait until the wort is cooled then.

The grain drain took far longer than I expected, had to grab a couple of big pans to put the grain in once drained (in stages), as I never accounted for not all the grain would fit on top of the FV at once (over secured muslin) during this stage lol. To account for the extra grain I let it sit for more like 100 mins. The wort drain gave me about 5.8 litres, from what was a 10 litre water mix. So the grain has retained a lot of water. I put 9 litres in when going to the next stage and letting it sit for about 30 mins or so. More efficient draining of the grain might get maybe 7-8 litres from the 9 litre mix seeing as the grain has clearly retained a lot of the water the first time.

Any more than an extra 7 litres of wort and I might have to split the boil into 2 pots, all hail the small 7 litre pot if so lol.

If it's not draining fast enough for you just squeeze the bag. Wear some marigolds though as it can be hot

The grains absorb about 1L/Kg

 

[Dave 666]

Exactly 15 litre of wort in the end. So 2 pans it is for the boil, unless both condense enough that I can put it all in 1 pan half way through or for cooling.

 

[GerritT]

Exactly 15 litre of wort in the end. So 2 pans it is for the boil, unless both condense enough that I can put it all in 1 pan half way through or for cooling.

10% loss per hour, give or take, maybe more with a vigorous boil.

 

[Dave 666]

That should be enough that the cooling stage can easily be done in the 15 litre alone then. Water in the freezer chilling to aid cooling in the sink.

 

[Dave 666]

So, things went a little off plan as I miss guessed how much wort I had in the pot after the boil and during the cooling stage. Needless to say, I figured I lost about 6 litres of the 15 I started the 90 main boil with. I'm guessing a shorter boil next time.

Anyway cooling went OK to a point, except I had issues getting the temps below 30c, even by having the pot in a sink of cold water and adding cold water to the wort. Didn't want to add more water to the wort at this point as already seemed close to the top, turned out I'd only got about 11 litres in the pot. But had no way to measure volume, just a poor guess.

Temps and gravity before adding to the bucket was 1055 at 28c, adjusted value look to be 1057?. So what I thought was close to 15 litres of wort into the FV (filtering the hops) to find I only had 11 litres (opps).

Now I thought based on early temp and gravity readings to top up to 12 litres with the bottled cold water as that would maybe get the temp close to 20c and a target OG of 1051. Only not enough liquid in the the FV to use the hydrometer!. So doubt I can be far off the target 1051 by adding another litre, but can't tell for sure.

Will just have to wait and see and examine my notes for next time, where I'm definitely sticking to a 10 litre batch.

UPDATE: after reading 12 litres in a 30 litre FV should be deep enough to take a hydrometer reading I tried, sure enough it was. And the reading was 1054 this time, little difference from last reading, so decided to add another litre of water. I now have 13 litres at 1052\1053 and will leave it there now and just wait.

 

[Slid]

Oops... Fat fingers there, possibly caused by too much cake... or beer

I think I tidied the post.

Doing AG is always worth the effort, with the proviso that it takes up a lot of time and space and it should not be causing too many frictions with the ones you have to live with. (God bless 'em)

 

[MyQul]

So, things went a little off plan as I miss guessed how much wort I had in the pot after the boil and during the cooling stage. Needless to say, I figured I lost about 6 litres of the 15 I started the 90 main boil with. I'm guessing a shorter boil next time.

Anyway cooling went OK to a point, except I had issues getting the temps below 30c, even by having the pot in a sink of cold water and adding cold water to the wort. Didn't want to add more water to the wort at this point as already seemed close to the top, turned out I'd only got about 11 litres in the pot. But had no way to measure volume, just a poor guess.

Temps and gravity before adding to the bucket was 1055 at 28c, adjusted value look to be 1057?. So what I thought was close to 15 litres of wort into the FV (filtering the hops) to find I only had 11 litres (opps).

Now I thought based on early temp and gravity readings to top up to 12 litres with the bottled cold water as that would maybe get the temp close to 20c and a target OG of 1051. Only not enough liquid in the the FV to use the hydrometer!. So doubt I can be far off the target 1051 by adding another litre, but can't tell for sure.

Will just have to wait and see and examine my notes for next time, where I'm definitely sticking to a 10 litre batch.

UPDATE: after reading 12 litres in a 30 litre FV should be deep enough to take a hydrometer reading I tried, sure enough it was. And the reading was 1054 this time, little difference from last reading, so decided to add another litre of water. I now have 13 litres at 1052\1053 and will leave it there now and just wait.

It can actually be quite difficult to cool wort do to pitching temp without a chiller. I've tried a number of things and found no-chilling the easiest