Has anyone found "The Ghost Deer"?

[calumscott]

I'd post a link to the blog entry but it it discusses the cold version of the D-word so instead, here are the salient points:

"A defiant and irreverent, devil may care, supersonic bitch of a beer. Ghost Deer is a 28% fermented beer, the strongest ever fermented beer which is only ever served from a single handcrafted and authentic deer’s head."

"Ghost Deer achieves 28% ABV simply from the normal fermentation process. We used a variety of yeast strains during the elephantine process and drip fed the fermented masterpiece exotic sugars to ensure the yeast lived long enough to continue the fermentation."

"The beer itself is a robust 28% blonde ale. After fermentation it is aged for 6 months in some amazing whisky, bourbon, rum and sherry barrels."

So, as I start the process of AG brewing in the next week or two...

...well there has to be an "end-game" doesn't there? Clearly the Brewdog guys are really quite experienced at the super-high ABV brewing process and know what sort of a wort you would need to start from to allow the drip feeding of sugars (presumably quite a lot of them!) to get the ABV that high.

I guess you would also need a combination of yeast strains in several separate fermentations? So starting with a high attenuating ale yeast, through wine yeasts, sake yeasts and super-high ABV alcotec yeasts to finish up...?

But has anyone seen the Ghost Deer? Has anyone tried the beer? If you were in such a mind as to attempt something like this where would you start?

 

[darkonnis]

Haven't tried it myself but I imagine what they do is start "low" as it where probably around the 5 - 10% mark and once fermentation is well under way then add a much stronger wort so the yeast rapidly consumes the sugars. By the time the yeast have got through it they're down to the last few anyway and the weaker ones are all dead at the bottom.
I guess they must also be using a variant of the alchotech yeast which goes up to 25%ish? With the right conditions I don't see why it couldn't be "pushed" for that extra 3%

 

[calumscott]

Resurrecting this idea, just for a bit of fun really (and inspired by the 9% APA I'll be bottling soon)...

I think the idea here is to get clever with yeast starters and drip-fed wort. I don't see why that couldn't be done at home. :hmm:

I reckon that I could make some experimental beers, a gallon at a time, in order to get big starters of appropriate yeast...

So "blonde ale"... I say Belgian blonde because there are bound to be whacky esters involved.

I'm going pale malts, perhaps super reduced (maybe even caramelised) worts. Probably candi sugar towards the end too...

...I'll need pretty aggressive yeasts. WLP099 is the standout candidate for getting to the final ABV. But reading the bit about " We used a variety of yeast strains" I'm thinking that dropping it onto progressive cakes of different strains could be fun?

So the finished beer would start as a "big beer" wort, in the 9% bracket probably with US-05, then drop that with another dose of fermentibles (caramelised wort) onto a cake of some crazy trapist yeast capable up to 15 or 16% then finally onto WLP099 to finish up with a drip feed of candi until it gets really silly.

I reckon anything over 20% is where I'm aiming...

I think I would also have to store some of the WLP099 to reseed after a good long maturation, probably involving whisky soaked oak chips...

So, is this the right way to approach it? Particularly in terms of the graded yeast strains?

 

[calumscott]

Thinking it through a bit further...

First wort - 1.25kg grain in a 3l batch gives 1.100 ish - in the 10% range
Second wort - 1kg grain in 2.5l boiled down to 1l gives around 1.250 which when added gives a theoretical 1.138 (into the 15-16% range)
Final Stage - 1kg candi fed over <n> days in a further litre gives is 1.300 which when added gives a theoretical 1.171 or a smidge over 20%

I think the first wort should go on to a pretty standard beer's yeast cake, just a simple 1.040 ish pale with US-05.
Second stage needs to go on to a belgian trappist cake, I guess this needs something a bit bigger - I'm thinking a 6-7% Belgian thing?
Third stage needs to go onto WLP099 and I guess this needs to be used to the alcohol so maybe as a third ferment? So do something about 1.050 to get it going, something BIGish to warm it up - maybe a silly pale in the 12-13% bracket?

 

[robsan77]

You could try double mashing. Take the wort from one mash, and use that as the liquor to mash fresh grains.

 

[calumscott]

You could try double mashing. Take the wort from one mash, and use that as the liquor to mash fresh grains.

Instead of the super-reduction in stage two?

Any idea how you calculate what your gravities would be when you do that - I'm guessing it's not linear...

 

[graysalchemy]

There was an article in BYO about uber high beers of the 18-20% leval, it was a good read but I can't find it any more. If your powers of searching are better than mine please send me a link.

However from what I remember they mashed at lower temps otherwise you would end up with beer too sweet and they also used amylase enzymes to help it along its way. Yeast wise they use the highest gravity loving ale yeast they could and then used champagne yeast. I think they did as you say drip feeding ever increasing gravity wort as well.

Cheers

A

 

[robsan77]

You could try double mashing. Take the wort from one mash, and use that as the liquor to mash fresh grains.

Instead of the super-reduction in stage two?

Any idea how you calculate what your gravities would be when you do that - I'm guessing it's not linear...

No idea I'm afraid.

 

[calumscott]

So it seems that double mashing trashes efficiency...

I think I'll go with the reduction idea.

Any thoughts on hops? A Belgie blonde calls for nobles like Styrian Golding but maybe with something as crazy as this I'll need something which can stand up for itself in a fight?

 

[calumscott]

OK, so... here's a first stab. I'll need to decide on the supplementary beers to get the starters/yeast cakes going but that's entirely secondary...

And it will be named, because the inspiration is Ghost Deer and because it rhymes and because Lucy Spraggan is great and "Beer Fear" is hillarious...

...Dead Deer Beer Fear...

For a final demijohn of 5l:

First wort:
1.20 kg               Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.5 EBC)         Grain         1        36.1 %        
0.07 kg               Crystal Malt (130.0 EBC)                 Grain         3        2.1 %         
0.05 kg               Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC)                 Grain         4        1.5 %         
8.00 g                Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min        Hop           6        22.7 IBUs     
5.00 g                Willamette [5.70 %] - Boil 30.0 min      Hop           7        3.5 IBUs      
5.00 g                Willamette [5.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min      Hop           8        1.7 IBUs      
5.00 g                Willamette [5.70 %] - Boil 5.0 min       Hop           9        1.0 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         10       -             

Second Wort:
1.00 kg               Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.5 EBC)         Grain         2        30.1 %        
5.00 g                Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min        Hop           6        22.7 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [35.49 Yeast         12       -             

Final Step:
1.00 kg               Candi Sugar, Clear (1.0 EBC)             Sugar         5        30.1 %        
1.0 pkg               Super High Gravity Ale (White Labs #WLP099) Yeast         11       -

Then a good 6 months in bulk on whisky soaked oak.

 

[graysalchemy]

I have found the link but unfortunately it is no longer available online (unless you subscribe I suppose) :evil: :evil: :evil:

Sorry.

If you search ultra high gravity there is quite a lot about it, but you are basically going to have to do one mother of a partgyle or reduce the wort.

 

[Stu]

If the link was originally free to view online, it might be worth checking with the "Wayback" machine.

I use it all the time

http://wayback.archive.org/

 

[PD]

think I'll just sup 6 bottles of my 5% ale............ :rofl: :rofl:

 

[calumscott]

:lol: It's not just about the supping PD! It's partly the challenge, the "can it be done" factor...