hard water area

[steve6690]

i live in a really hard water area, even after we had a new boiler fitter the hot water can be very murky with the limescale

would this have any impact on the taste quality of my brews?

they dont seem to taste any differet, but just curious that if i done everything identical but had soft water would i notice any difference/

 

[CheshireCBR]

I know the water in Burton-on-Trent is quite hard and its good enough to make it the capital of brewing :lol: well it was until the two big brewery's became one big one, then three other brewery's closed just leaving marstons stuck out on its own, but all the brewery's still use well water to make the brews, there are numerous restrictions on the chemicals that people in the town can use just incase it seeps into the water table

 

[steve6690]

Thought burton was a soft area with it being so close to Birmingham.

But at least that clears that up, i only asked because i have seen people using bottle water

 

[rpt]

Birmingham only has soft water because it comes from Wales.

 

[Maffa]

Our water is pretty hard (it sculks around dark alleys with a flick knife) :rofl:

Seriously now, i haven't used good old Thames Water as it is very hard and I haven't bothered with tablets in water either. For a quid, you can get 5lites of mineral water. 4 of those and there's ya brew, you also end up with some big PET bottles for carry outs :clap:

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/sainsbur ... er_5l.html

(apologies for the bad joke)

 

[dodsi]

I just use mineral water... it does make a fair difference and you can get 2 litres for 25p in Tesco so 10 of these cost £2.50 Better yeast costs £2.50.

£13.99 (dunelm special) wherry/admirals reserve kit + £2.50 + £2.50 = £18.99 for 20ltrs of decent quality beer with no hastle.

 

[winelight]

I live in an extremely hard water area, I've tried tap water, Asda bottled water, and filtered water (I have a water filter plumbed in that's supposed to filter out the hard stuff), and to be honest I don't know if it really makes any difference. I always use filtered water now, I believe it also gets rid of some of the chlorine, although that could be my imagination, and it saves the hassle of buying all those bottles.

 

[CheshireCBR]

no Burton is hard water from the derbyshire dales, use to go through kettles like no ones business then again my ex kept on changing what stile she wanted which did help :lol:

 

[calumscott]

Mine's really hard too.

I'm nowhere near experienced enough with everything else yet to give it more any thought than chucking in a campden tablet to blat the chlorine...

But then I like beer from round here (Hooky, Wychwood, Arkells...) so I figure if it's good enough for them... :thumb:

 

[Baldbrewer]

My waters hard too, I use 1/2 Campden tablet and 80mls CRS in 36L of water.

No probs at all :thumb:

 

[alawlor66430]

My waters soft its just like drinking from a bottle of volvic straight from the tap, but I always remember my grandads water (south shields) tasting horrible.

 

[bunkerbrewer]

My waters hard too, I use 1/2 Campden tablet and 80mls CRS in 36L of water.

No probs at all :thumb:

Crikey, I've got 228ppm CaCO3 and only use 30-40ml CRS in 34L - your water must be b*****d hard!!

 

[pittsy]

i would be very careful adding that much crs as it will overdose the sulfate which is ok for hoppy beers but not for others or malty type . Just getting into water etc and its a head doer but i would say what are the local old breweries making by you ? mine is bank's and yes bitter and mild turn out to be great for my water but correction needed for lighter beers .

 

[mabrungard]

Burton water is 'rock hard' with total hardness in the 850 ppm range. Most of its hardness is permanent hardness which means that the calcium and magnesium are paired with high concentrations of chloride and sulfate. In the case of Steve's water, the fact that it becomes murky when heated indicates that his water probably has a high amount of temporary hardness. That means the Ca and Mg may mostly be paired with bicarbonate.

Brewing with that water may not be a problem if its boiled briefly and then left to settle for a few hours. Tossing in a couple teaspoons of powdered chalk will help grab a lot of the precipitating chalk that is produced by the boiling and get it to settle out quicker. The chalk will not dissolve in the freshly boiled water, so don't worry about adding to the problem. When the water has cleared, decant it off the sediment and you will have a water with about 50 to 60 ppm alkalinity (as CaCO3). That should be a fairly good starting point with respect to alkalinity. You may need to add more acid to reduce the alkalinity further for some brews and for your sparging water, but at least you won't have to add as much.

Finding out what mineral content your normal tap water has, would be a great start. You may find that the tap water already has a lot of one ion or another and you may want to avoid adding any more. Knowledge is power in this case. You can learn more about what your brewing water goals should be and why its important by visiting the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website.

 

[WelshPaul]

I've just had a look at the water report in my area and the supplier (Dwr Cymru) gives the following info:

Avg hardness: 130
Hardness: 52
Classification: Slightly Hard
Degrees Clark: 9.1
Degrees German: 7.28

I'm not familiar with these figures: nowhere does it mention Calcium carbonate, so any ideas on how best to treat water like this, if at all?

 

[LeithR]

All,
Here's what it says in Dave Lines book "Brewing Beers like those you buy" - page 19
Type of beer Chalky Water(Hard) Non Chalky Water(soft)
Lager 1 -

Light Ale, Bitter, Pale Ale, Strong Ale Barley Wine 1,2 2

Brown Ale, Winter Ale, Mild Ale, Sweet Stout 1,3 3

Irish Stout - 4

Key
1 = Add 1 tspn of flaked Calcium Chloride or Lactic Acid Solution OR Boil water for 15mins then rack off the soft water for use when cool.

2= Add 1 tspn of Gypsum (Calcium Sulphate) and add 1/2 tspn Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulphate)

3 = Add 1/2 tspn common salt

4 = Add 1 tspn chalk (Calcium Carbonate)

n.b. 1 level tspn = 5ml

Hope this helps the discussions

 

[LeithR]

Sorry folks it seams that the forum doesn't support tabs or even additional spaces in posts.

for the first one Lager for hard water add 1 - for soft water do nothing
for the second list light ale etc... for hard water add 1 and 2 for soft water add 2.

The rest goes along the same way.

 

[calumscott]

it seams that the forum doesn't support tabs or even additional spaces in posts

You can use a "code" block...

To     Do     Stuff
Like   This

:thumb:

 

[Stu]

Burton water is 'rock hard' with total hardness in the 850 ppm range. Most of its hardness is permanent hardness which means that the calcium and magnesium are paired with high concentrations of chloride and sulfate. In the case of Steve's water, the fact that it becomes murky when heated indicates that his water probably has a high amount of temporary hardness. That means the Ca and Mg may mostly be paired with bicarbonate.

850? Nothing in the UK is anywhere near half that!

Burton is indeed very hard at 244ppm
http://www.south-staffs-water.co.uk/you ... rdness.asp

Very hard water starts at 200ppm.

Our local water is really hard at around 350ppm. It's amongst the hardest in the UK (Bedfordshire) I wouldn't use it to brew beer again. I put my aquarium heater in a trub with tap water and it furred up in a week.

I would estimate that even if I clean my kettle with vinegar every 3 months, I get through a decent brand kettle every 2 years. In a house I owned where we used the immersion heater a lot, we replaced it every 3 years.

 

[pittsy]

I've just had a look at the water report in my area and the supplier (Dwr Cymru) gives the following info:

Avg hardness: 130
Hardness: 52
Classification: Slightly Hard
Degrees Clark: 9.1
Degrees German: 7.28

I'm not familiar with these figures: nowhere does it mention Calcium carbonate, so any ideas on how best to treat water like this, if at all?

Paul , i have just started getting into water chemistry and you should get some test kits , calcium ,alkalinity, magnesium (but make sure it's for tap water as mine is for marine water which is useless , with these you can work out what you have plus if you have a **** water report like mine hopefully you will still have chloride and sulfate .
I would not go adding salts or calcium or crs without knowing what you have because you can have hard water with low alkalinity and soft water with low alkalinity and vice versa , also your chloride needs to be lowish but if you want malty beer then your sulfate should be similar or lower than your chloride and adding crs to lower calcium for example could seriously increase your sulfate (which is good if it was low and you want hoppy beer ) you really need to read lots and lots , Palmers is a great way to start with interesting info on RA and the colour of brew etc .