Handling PB leak

[Sorade]

Hi all,

Just a quick question. I barreled my first batch yesterday. I used PTFE tape and Vaseline to try and make the barrel leak proof but I noticed tonight a slight leak at the barrel/tap thread. Only a few drops (probably 5 mL in 12 hours or so). I tried to open the top to see if I had any pressure build up. I got a slight hissing sound so I closed it up again.

I think I should leave it be and hope that the fact that it seems to be able to hold some pressure is able to provide enough carbonation for the first few pints or so. Once I have a bit more room to play with I can use cartridge of CO2 for the rest of the way.

Any advice ??

 

[Fil]

is the tap threaded into the barrel body or is it secured with a nut inside?

If threaded into the body you can tip the barrel back till the tap is at the top, and support it so it wont roll, then you can remove the tap and rewrap with ptfe before resealing, adding an early co2 bulb should replace the lost pressure when done and allow you to test the fix. fingers crossed you have spotted it quickly enough as to not loose much condition if any.

 

[Dutto]

I agree with Fil.

Rule Number One - "Leaks NEVER get better on their own."

The secret is:

1. Identify that there is a leak as soon as possible.

2. Determine exactly where it is coming from and repair the leak.

3. Test the PB to make sure that the leak is actually cured.

Relying on CO2 capsules to maintain pressure on a leaking PB is a waste of effort, time, money and beer!

I therefore suggest that you fix the leak as soon as possible and purchase a basic set of spares for when it happens again; as it surely will.

I recommend minimum spares to be a set of valve rubbers, an "O" ring and a tap.

Enjoy. :thumb:

 

[terrym]

Assuming it's the reducing thread type fitted to 2" cap barrels, try tightening it a tad, then if that doesn't work back it off a little. If that doesn't work refit the tap, which will involve repriming or CO2.
And if that doesn't work get yourself down to Tesco and buy some of their cheap 2 litre fizzy water bottles (about 17p) and put your beer into that (assuming of course you don't have enough bottles). You can then sort out the PB at your leisure. And I agree with Dutto you need a set of spares to run a PB, they are cheap enough.

 

[Sorade]

Thanks for your comments, I'll definitely get a set of spare !!

In terms of re-priming, I assume that if I re-prime with half the initial amount, say 50 grams, I should be okay right ? any excess pressure will be removed by the valve ?

I've tightened the tap this morning, gave it an extra twist ... if it fixes it good, if not, I 'll remove the tap and add a bit more tape than I did the first time around (it felt a bit loose, but I've always been told that over-tightening o-ring was not making things better.)

And final point, if I end up re-fitting the tap and need to use re-priming/CO2, am I okay using a co2 cartridge with little head space inside the barrel or am I at risk of damaging it ?

 

[Sandimas]

Try tightening it up a bit more as suggested, I find mine is hand-tight before filling but somehow gets a tad loose afetr beer is added or pressure builds up. I've had leaks as you describe and find the tap needs to be pretty tight, but not too much to strip the thread.

 

[Sorade]

Okay that's maybe what it is then. I was really surprised when I tested it with water the first time. The tap was really easy to screw, no resistance whatsoever. Adding a bit (a couple of turns) of tape made it a bit better but I could still screw up to the o-ring without forcing to much.

 

[IPA]

Thanks for your comments, I'll definitely get a set of spare !!

In terms of re-priming, I assume that if I re-prime with half the initial amount, say 50 grams, I should be okay right ? any excess pressure will be removed by the valve ?

I've tightened the tap this morning, gave it an extra twist ... if it fixes it good, if not, I 'll remove the tap and add a bit more tape than I did the first time around (it felt a bit loose, but I've always been told that over-tightening o-ring was not making things better.)

And final point, if I end up re-fitting the tap and need to use re-priming/CO2, am I okay using a co2 cartridge with little head space inside the barrel or am I at risk of damaging it ?

I will say this for the last time. If it is leaking past the washer on the tap it is almost certainly due to the tap thread end hitting against the moulding of the barrel and no amount of ptfe will stop it leaking. The answer is to cut 5mm off of the thread or clear the obstruction in the barrel moulding with a scalpel so that the washer compresses.

 

[terrym]

The primary means of the sealing the tap to barrel joint is the rubber gasket. It really shouldn't need PTFE tape on the threads although lots of folk like me use it as a 'belt and braces' approach. So I would spend my efforts getting the rubber gasket seal joint sorted, and as darrellm has said tightening it might work as a first step.

 

[IPA]

The primary means of the sealing the tap to barrel joint is the rubber gasket. It really shouldn't need PTFE tape on the threads although lots of folk like me use it as a 'belt and braces' approach. So I would spend my efforts getting the rubber gasket seal joint sorted, and as darrellm has said tightening it might work as a first step.

The point that I am trying to make is if the thread on the tap is too long you cannot compress the rubber washer and it will always leak. Even the new style Wilkos barrels have the same fault. In fact the only solution with these is to shorten the thread.

 

[terrym]

The point that I am trying to make is if the thread on the tap is too long you cannot compress the rubber washer and it will always leak. Even the new style Wilkos barrels have the same fault. In fact the only solution with these is to shorten the thread.

We do understand y'know. Wot you said first time was very clear to me at least. :thumb:

 

[Sorade]

The point that I am trying to make is if the thread on the tap is too long you cannot compress the rubber washer and it will always leak. Even the new style Wilkos barrels have the same fault. In fact the only solution with these is to shorten the thread.

I understand what you're saying. In my case the thread is short enough that I can easily get to and compress the rubber washer against the barrel, but just feels very loose when screwing the tap on (all the way to the washer).

 

[Sorade]

Hi everyone. A little heads up on the barrel situation, after stopping the leak from the tap (not a single drop on beer spilt since I gave it another turn), my beer had 2 weeks to carbonate at about 17-18 degrees C. I had enough pressure for a couple of pints taken a couple of days appart, but yesterday I couldn't get a third one out. I used a CO2 cartridge to bump up the pressure a bit but I didn't notice as high a pressure as I was expecting today. Got 3/4 of a pint out and decided to stop it there as the beer jet didn't seem really powerful and I didn't want air bubbling back in.

Any suggestion on a course of action ? Keep using CO2 cartridges ? Try and re-prime next time I run out of pressure ? If so how long should I give it after re-priming ... another 2 weeks ?

Thanks

 

[terrym]

I think you have a leak, probably, but not definitely, from the cap somewhere. I suggest you inject with CO2 and then use soapy water liberally applied on the cap area including the seams of the PB itself to see if you can see where its leaking.

 

[Sorade]

Ok, I'll try that. One thing I noticed, I don't know if that's normal, when I screw a cartridge to the top on the barrel I get a bit of a spray coming out of the valve. Is that due to the overpressure because I don't have enough head space or is it most of the gas just leaking out.

 

[Fil]

you mention the temperature you let it condition at did you change position/temp to serve?

If so you may find the excess co2 in the headspace was absorbed as condition in the beer due to the lower temperature?

 

[Dutto]

Just as a matter of interest, how old is the keg?

I have had to renew the back pressure seal (the rubber bit on the little tang underneath the lid) and the pressure relief seal (the rubber ring underneath the thread for the CO2 injection) on a King Keg that is about two years old.

There was no hissing or dramatic loss of CO2 but after eliminating everything else they had to be (and were) the problem of lost pressure. When I removed the seals they were both badly perished and virtually fell off the keg!

Although bought new, the keg itself (and obviously the seals) may be a couple of years old. The only problem is that by checking them you will probably destroy them, so be careful!

 

[Sorade]

I suggest you inject with CO2 and then use soapy water liberally applied on the cap area including the seams of the PB itself to see if you can see where its leaking.

Terrym, tried that this weekend and no leak from the main cap seal that I could see. The only place where the soapy water bubbled was at the pressure release valve of the cap. I assume this is normal as I still don't have much headspace ?
(see attachement image, red arrow shows where I could see bubbles which stopped after excess pressure was removed, and green area show areas where there could have been bubbles but I couldn't see any).

you mention the temperature you let it condition at did you change position/temp to serve?

Fil, no I had kept everything at the same temperature during conditioning and serving (around 18 degrees C). I have however, moved my barrel to a colder place (9 degrees C) yesterday, I will inject CO2 in it tonight and let it dissolve in the cold beer for a few days. I hope that by taking it back to the room at 18 C in a few days, some of the dissolve CO2 will be released and bump my pressure up a bit.

Just as a matter of interest, how old is the keg?

I have had to renew the back pressure seal (the rubber bit on the little tang underneath the lid) and the pressure relief seal (the rubber ring underneath the thread for the CO2 injection) on a King Keg that is about two years old.

There was no hissing or dramatic loss of CO2 but after eliminating everything else they had to be (and were) the problem of lost pressure. When I removed the seals they were both badly perished and virtually fell off the keg!

Although bought new, the keg itself (and obviously the seals) may be a couple of years old. The only problem is that by checking them you will probably destroy them, so be careful!

Dutto, this is the first time I use it, got it for Christmas. When I applied vaseline to the seals I didn't notice anything unusual tear or wear. I'm starting to wonder if my barrel is porous ?

 

[terrym]

You appear to have done all you practically can to investigate cap seals leak, and the results are good it seems. If your PB has seams in the shell did you put soapy water on them?
Barrels are never porous. They leak due to seals that are not gas tight or splits in the shell itself. Even a tiny hole will leak when the pressure rises, and the outcome of that will be leaking liquid which will be visible if the hole is below the liquid level, or lost gas if above which will mean you do not get up to pressure or if it's so bad can't get any pressure at all, and latter of course are the leaks that are not immediately obvious.
If your PB is new and not gas tight I suggest you talk to your supplier about a replacement, assuming you have done everything you can to ensure it works as it should.
And if you have not interfered much with your beer it will be fine, it will just need transferring over to the new PB or packaging into bottles. Two litre ex fizzy water bottles are a good emergency store and at about 17p from Tesco are cheap enough.

 

[terrym]

You appear to have done all you practically can to investigate cap seals leak, and the results are good it seems. If your PB has seams in the shell did you put soapy water on them?
Barrels are never porous. They leak due to seals that are not gas tight or splits in the shell itself. Even a tiny hole will leak when the pressure rises, and the outcome of that will be leaking liquid which will be visible if the hole is below the liquid level, or lost gas if above which will mean you do not get up to pressure or if it's so bad can't get any pressure at all, and latter of course are the leaks that are not immediately obvious.
If your PB is new and not gas tight I suggest you talk to your supplier about a replacement, assuming you have done everything you can to ensure it works as it should.
And if you have not interfered much with your beer it will be fine, it will just need transferring over to the new PB or packaging into bottles. Two litre ex fizzy water bottles are a good emergency store and at about 17p from Tesco are cheap enough.