Gushing bottles

[stubrewworx]

So 2 different brews have produced gushing bottles.

Aside from an infection or wild yeast, could a gushing bottle be a result if poor attenuation and refermenting and producing too much co2 in the bottle?

I'm not getting any off flavours or any wild tastes, but that's not proof of anything!

 

[Baldylocks Brewery]

Hi Stu
I had the same with two consecutive brews which were all in the fermentor for 3 weeks. I changed my bottle cleaning routine to soaking in oxi, before bottle brush and sanitising and its been ok since.
Also realised that some of my bottles were deeper than the bottle brush handle length so ditched them.
took me a while to find a good spoon/funnel size combo to get the correct sugar in the bottles which produced similar problems but judging by your years in the game I guess you nailed that a long time ago?

 

[stubrewworx]

Years in the game is on and off.... always learning I think.

The bottles are unused pet with just a sanitizer and 1 carb drop.

Haven't really had gushers before, not always good beers for different reasons but never a gushers.

 

[Baldylocks Brewery]

Only other thing I can think about is yeast cross contamination e.g. wild or have you done a Saison recently?
Not tried brewing one yet but while researching there’s plenty of mention of using separate kit to avoid cross contamination?

 

[MashBag]

Bottle hygiene is important, but if its the whole batch, it started before or during bottling.

This could be the enzyme doodah (not its real name ) breaking down long chain sugars, making them available to the yeast.

Boil or steam your bottling kit.

 

[Sandimas]

Really hard to pin down. I've been brewing 13 years and still get the odd one.

When were they brewed? I tend to get more gushers with brews made in mid-late summer. Probably wild yeast. Just started making Sourdough, am amazed how much wild yeast is in the air in the house, left the containers open for an hour and the Sourdough was bubbling.

Where were they stored? Mine are in the garage, fine in the winter but bad in the summer, it gets too hot and seems to re-start fermentation, plus the warmer temps push the CO2 out of the beer (just as cooler temps promote CO2 absorbtion).

What was your FG and how long had it been fermenting - had the beer truly finished fermenting? I've had some yeasts take 20+ days to finish, fermentation slows right down at the end but sometimes doesn't stop, if you bottle too early it will keep going in the bottle. So you won't get a gusher if you drink the bottles quick, but if you leave them a month or two it might gush.

 

[stubrewworx]

Really hard to pin down. I've been brewing 13 years and still get the odd one.

When were they brewed? I tend to get more gushers with brews made in mid-late summer. Probably wild yeast. Just started making Sourdough, am amazed how much wild yeast is in the air in the house, left the containers open for an hour and the Sourdough was bubbling.

Where were they stored? Mine are in the garage, fine in the winter but bad in the summer, it gets too hot and seems to re-start fermentation, plus the warmer temps push the CO2 out of the beer (just as cooler temps promote CO2 absorbtion).

What was your FG and how long had it been fermenting - had the beer truly finished fermenting? I've had some yeasts take 20+ days to finish, fermentation slows right down at the end but sometimes doesn't stop, if you bottle too early it will keep going in the bottle. So you won't get a gusher if you drink the bottles quick, but if you leave them a month or two it might gush.

All brewed this year with no extreme temps during conditioning.

FG of 1.014 and 1.022. Mash temp was on the higher end and as said, yeast was Windsor.

I ferment in kettle and bottle straight from them, so no transfer other than to the bottle.

I have Windsor working on another atm. But I'll pitch some wilko/gervin/Notts in a few days and leave for 2 weeks.

I'll see how that gets on...

 

[MashBag]

Windsor alarm... Wup wup. Wup wup.

This yeast is known to not finish well. Could that contribute?

I always co-innoculate when I use Windsor.

 

[crescent city Mike]

Some experiments were conducted back in the 1950's which brought out that gushing is often caused by jagged (microscopic) particles in beer which provide nucleation sites. Calcium oxalate is one of the particles identified which is the same material we call "beer stone.".

Research found that some of the old-style bottle caps exposed aluminum to the beer which reacted to cause gushing. Over-carbonation does not seem to be the culprit here.

 

[stubrewworx]

Windsor alarm... Wup wup. Wup wup.

This yeast is known to not finish well. Could that contribute?

I always co-innoculate when I use Windsor.

That's what I hope.

Time will tell on the next brew.

 

[stubrewworx]

Some experiments were conducted back in the 1950's which brought out that gushing is often caused by jagged (microscopic) particles in beer which provide nucleation sites. Calcium oxalate is one of the particles identified which is the same material we call "beer stone.".

Research found that some of the old-style bottle caps exposed aluminum to the beer which reacted to cause gushing. Over-carbonation does not seem to be the culprit here.

I use PET bottles?

 

[crescent city Mike]

I use PET bottles?

I guess your problem with gushing isn't due to aluminum caps. You'll have to look elsewhere.
The trick of using mentos tablets in a 2 litre bottle of Coke is an example of excessive nucleation sites. Beerstone is a precipitate formed of calcium and magnesium from the water and proteins and tannins from the malt. If this is a recurring problem, take a closer look at your brew-water chemistry.

 

[MashBag]

I guess your problem with gushing isn't due to aluminum caps. You'll have to look elsewhere.
The trick of using mentos tablets in a 2 litre bottle of Coke is an example of excessive nucleation sites. Beerstone is a precipitate formed of calcium and magnesium from the water and proteins and tannins from the malt. If this is a recurring problem, take a closer look at your brew-water chemistry.

That's really interesting. I have had gushers.. Prolly 1 or 2 batches. Never before in omg years. But I have had a massive beer rock in bottles problem a couple of years ago that did indeed require me to fix my water.

Hmmm. Food for thought.

 

[starseeker]

At least with pet bottles you can degas your beer over a few evenings until they are stable

 

[sifty]

Interesting question. I have one brew that gushes, a Svagdricka (Swedish for weak drink). Was my attempt at making a flavourful lower alcohol beer, that came out just under 4%, was aiming closer to 3%. Dark mild profile, mashed at higher temp.
It's only this beer, I let it fully ferment out, and carbed via normal batch priming method to around 2.2 CO2, so a mystery. Can only assume there were some long chain sugars there that became available again after bottling? Weird, anyway it's drinkable, but foams for a few minutes after opening...

 

[Agentgonzo]

Over-carbonation does not seem to be the culprit here.

How can you be so sure?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I found that the one time I used windsor in an Old speckled hen clone it appeared to finish, it was in a fermentasaurus with spunding valve on and in an area about 16 C.
I noticed after a week or so the pressure would be up when I checked and I could see bubbles on the surface of the beer where they came up from the yeast collection bottle at the bottom of the cone.

Eventually I kegged it and bottled the remnants, every bottle was a gusher, didn't taste infected.
Windsor meant to not ferment some sugar groups but I don't trust it.

 

[stubrewworx]

I guess your problem with gushing isn't due to aluminum caps. You'll have to look elsewhere.
The trick of using mentos tablets in a 2 litre bottle of Coke is an example of excessive nucleation sites. Beerstone is a precipitate formed of calcium and magnesium from the water and proteins and tannins from the malt. If this is a recurring problem, take a closer look at your brew-water chemistry.

So potentially too much calcium and magnesium, or a not so ideal balance of them both?

 

[MashBag]

Share a postcode of a shop or something in your immediate area and we can check your water report.


But can I politely ask all members to stay on topic and assist the OP.
Water pistols at dawn is becoming TIRESOME, and we wonder why a parrel thread suggests homebrew might be in decline. There is no one way!

 

[sifty]

Windsor meant to not ferment some sugar groups but I don't trust it.

Guess who ordered some Windsor today...