Guiness Clone?

[Hudson1984]

Hi all, so the next brew on the list is a stout.

I've got my wine on the go and it'll be ready 2nd December. I'd like to get a decent guiness style stout going soon after.

Any recommendations? currently looking at St peters cream stout kit.

once these brews are all in keg the aim will be to look at moving to all grain. I really want to brew stout from ingredients.

 

[mickthetrick]

coopers irish stout is pretty good

 

[foxbat]

There's a recipe in Camra's BYOBRA by Graham Wheeler. This is for 19 litres. Scale the hops as required to get 45 IBUs for the volume you're brewing:

Guinness Extra Stout
70% Pale Malt
20% Flaked Barley
10% Roasted Barley

Target hops: 29g @60 mins (45 IBU)

OG: 1.042
FG: 1.013
ABV: 3.8%
Bitterness: 45
Colour: 203 EBC

 

[Hudson1984]

ah I'm not AG as yet sadly, so just working on a kit.

do plan to give AG a bash next year though

 

[GhostShip]

It's not a Guiness clone, but I copied a coffee stout recipe posted on here a while back, using St Peter's Cream Stout. It was superb - and very easy to do.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/st-peters-cream-stout.79414

 

[Clint]

There's a recipe in Camra's BYOBRA by Graham Wheeler. This is for 19 litres. Scale the hops as required to get 45 IBUs for the volume you're brewing:

Guinness Extra Stout
70% Pale Malt
20% Flaked Barley
10% Roasted Barley

Target hops: 29g @60 mins (45 IBU)

OG: 1.042
FG: 1.013
ABV: 3.8%
Bitterness: 45
Colour: 203 EBC

I was looking at this is in the book recently...is it any good?
Any way of adding the tart flavour that I remember Guinness having?

 

[An Ankoù]

Don't even think of aiming for draught Guinness unless you can dispense with N2 / CO2 mix. When I go for Dry Irish Dublin Stout, I'm aiming for something like the bottled Guinness at 5% abv.

 

[An Ankoù]

I was looking at this is in the book recently...is it any good?
Any way of adding the tart flavour that I remember Guinness having?

I understand Guinness sour the beer artificially with lactic acid. Not sure of the proportions, but I always add a good dollop of acidulated malt to my grist.

 

[Hudson1984]

Don't even think of aiming for draught Guinness unless you can dispense with N2 / CO2 mix. When I go for Dry Irish Dublin Stout, I'm aiming for something like the bottled Guinness at 5% abv.

yeah I've got the "stout line" ready for 70/30. so should be ok on dispense.

 

[Clint]

I understand Guinness sour the beer artificially with lactic acid. Not sure of the proportions, but I always add a good dollop of acidulated malt to my grist.

Ah nice one! I got some acid malt...what amount in 23l?
Also what dry yeast...in taking this to be a dry stout style?
In the book the fg is 1.013 so a lower attenuator maybe?
I crunched the recipe with MJ Liberty Bell but I also got US 05,NOTTY,MJ M44...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Any way of adding the tart flavour that I remember Guinness having?

Boak and Bailey have written quite a bit about the detail of Guinness processes, using various original sources. See eg :

https://boakandbailey.com/2020/01/complexifying-guinness-1967/and more detail from a former head brewer's records : The Magic Guinness Blend c.1939

It included a bit of OBS (Old Beer Storage - old beer that had gone off), and barm beer from the yeast presses (intensely bitter on its own, but essential for the blend)

 

[Horners]

Ah nice one! I got some acid malt...what amount in 23l?
Also what dry yeast...in taking this to be a dry stout style?
In the book the fg is 1.013 so a lower attenuator maybe?
I crunched the recipe with MJ Liberty Bell but I also got US 05,NOTTY,MJ M44...

I also read about the lactic somewhere and having done some amount of research (can't comment on veracity of source) ended up with acid malt at 4% of grist.

 

[An Ankoù]

Boak and Bailey have written quite a bit about the detail of Guinness processes, using various original sources. See eg :

https://boakandbailey.com/2020/01/complexifying-guinness-1967/and more detail from a former head brewer's records : The Magic Guinness Blend c.1939

It included a bit of OBS (Old Beer Storage - old beer that had gone off), and barm beer from the yeast presses (intensely bitter on its own, but essential for the blend)

Yes indeed. This is all very true and really fascinating. But, are we prepared to go to these lengths and let a batch go off and sour so that we can boil some of it with the fresh beer and also add what I understand is part of the yeast head from a previous batch, or the runnings from it (I think that's what barm beer is) I think they also used the returns and general sludge from returned barrels .
I don't think any of their beers are made like this nowadays.

 

[An Ankoù]

Ah nice one! I got some acid malt...what amount in 23l?
Also what dry yeast...in taking this to be a dry stout style?
In the book the fg is 1.013 so a lower attenuator maybe?
I crunched the recipe with MJ Liberty Bell but I also got US 05,NOTTY,MJ M44...

As @Horners says, 4% is the goto qty. I used 4.5% in my last batch and felt it wasn't enough. I think I'd go to 7 next time, but take it easy. Of the yeasts you have, I think Nottingham is the closest. It's a dry stout do you want a decent attennuator. I don't think I'd go with either of the West Coast yeasts.

 

[foxbat]

I think they also used the returns and general sludge from returned barrels .
I don't think any of their beers are made like this nowadays.

That would almost certainly be banned under the EU General Food Law (traceability). And thank god for that!

 

[terrym]

+1 for Coopers Irish Stout.
There aren't many better kits out there.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Also what dry yeast...in taking this to be a dry stout style?
In the book the fg is 1.013 so a lower attenuator maybe?
I crunched the recipe with MJ Liberty Bell but I also got US 05,NOTTY,MJ M44...

I recently brewed a stout using CML BEoIR but so recently that I can’t tell you what it is like yet!

 

[Clint]

Ah yes I've been looking at the CML yeasts...I liked the kolsch,kristalweissen,Cali and cider but couldn't get on with their pale.

 

[MmmBeer]

Reading through this thread, I remembered reading somewhere that Guinness adds a small amount of soured beer back into each batch. Looking through my bookshelf, I guessed at one book and quickly found the exact quote on page 102 of Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher. This suggests infecting 3% of the brew with a souring yeast / bacteria to do its stuff, or on a more practical scale for homebrewers, add a tablespoon of 80% lactic acid or 'a pound or two of acid malt'.

 

[Clint]

"pound or two" is quite a lot...a pound in a 23l batch is 8% ish...