Grosch / kilner bottle exploded

[New_to_Brew]

Hi all,

I tried a small bottle of my leffe clone last night and when I opened it it gushed out everywhere and threw up all the yeast on the bottom, whatever foam was left tasted lovely once settled though. I moved the other bottles into my spare room, went to bed and at 5am I heard a loud bang and one of my 750ml leffe clone bottles of the same batch had exploded think disturbing them brought on the inevitable

I googled it and seems like there's lot of reasons, too much priming sugar (I doubt that as I measured it out, 6g per litre), didn't mix the dissolved sugar enough, wild yeast infection, bottles aren't clean enough or the obvious which is primary fermentation hadn't finished (doubt that too, FG was 1.008)

These are flip top bottles so what I've done is quickly pop the caps (some started doing the same as my small bottle I tried, violently throwing up yeast and bubbles from the bottom) then resealed them, covered with a towel and put in the sink.

I'm thinking that should've released some pressure, Im going to drink some this weekend and the rest wait another week and hope it's still carbonated but not dangerous.

What do you guys think? Have I done the right thing?

BTW I thought I should mention the yeast I've used is mangrove jacks bavarian wheat yeast, M20. Attenuation medium and flocculation low, will this yeast cause anything like this to happen? The flip top bottles do seem thin too but managed my previous belgian ale just fine

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Leffe is not a wheat beer why use wheat beer yeast? I use CML Flushed Nun. I got 87% attenuation with it.

 

[New_to_Brew]

Leffe is not a wheat beer why use wheat beer yeast? I use CML Flushed Nun.

I know it isn't but I was just experimenting really, the reason I used this yeast is because its supposed to give off banana and clove esters which is what I love about leffe. I used belgian ale yeast from mangrove jack before and it wasn't what I was looking for... So do you reckon it maybe something to do with the yeast or are you just curios why I used it?

The taste is exactly what I was after so if it isn't the yeast I'd definitely use it again

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I know it isn't but I was just experimenting really, the reason I used this yeast is because its supposed to give off banana and clove esters which is what I love about leffe. I used belgian ale yeast from mangrove jack before and it wasn't what I was looking for... So do you reckon it maybe something to do with the yeast or are you just curios why I used it?

The taste is exactly what I was after so if it isn't the yeast I'd definitely use it again

I’m not sure it’s a yeast issue but M20 is not a high attenuation yeast and although it reached 1008 before bottling it obviously over carbonated in the bottles.

 

[moto748]

I think 6 g per litre is a lot. I have never (well, not for along time) used that much in anything.

 

[New_to_Brew]

I’m not sure it’s a yeast issue but M20 is not a high attenuation yeast and although it reached 1008 before bottling it obviously over carbonated in the bottles.

So do you think it wasn't done fermenting before I bottled? Maybe I was naive but assumed 1.008 was a safe bottling fg especially for this yeast but I'm still a beginner

I think 6 g per litre is a lot. I have never (well, not for along time) used that much in anything.

I used Google search and the average was 5g per litre for batch priming

How much does you use?

 

[klaus]

Just as an aside, you mention "Kilner" bottles - personally I would only use fliptops which are actual beer bottles or marketed as such. I see a lot of fliptops which are suitable only for still liquids or even just for decoration - especially those where the glass appears to be uneven.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I've had experiences where M20 stalled for a week, then continued to carbonate afterwards. From a search on the forum, a bunch of others have too. Though we all seemed to have it stall at 1.020.

There is a chance that it stalled at 1.008, then restarted and attenuated further. Take some of the beer - your foam will do if you still have some of it. Degas it (shake it loads), let it settle, then take a gravity reading of it. I'm sure it'll be lower than 1.008.

6g/L is a sensible amount for a moderately fizzy beer. That alone won't have made the bottles explode.

How did you add the sugar? Was it just raw crystalised sugar, or did you boil it up in sugar solution. There is a possibility that the sugar had bacterial contamination on it and that's continued to metabolise your unfermentable sugars.

Have you used a diastaticus (saison) yeast recently? I had this where (I think, I'm still not sure) I had a hefe hugely over-carb (but not to the point where the bottles exploded). I put this down to residual saison yeast in the fermerter/bottles that continued to break down the longer sugars and overcarb the beer.

Be very careful moving the bottles now. Exploding glass can be very dangerous. You are right to relieve the pressure however you can. Pop-tops are really handy for this as it is very easy to open them, let the offgas and then reseal them. I would advise leaving them for at least a few hours with the caps open (though resting on the top to prevent stuff falling in and reduce oxygen ingress) as the beer is already at a very high carbonation level. If you just release the pressure in the bottle and reseal, the beer will still be hugely carbonated and you are still at risk. Leaving it for a few hours will allow a moderate amount of CO2 to escape. When you are thinking about resealing the bottles, maybe take one and pour it into a glass (and test it, obviously) to see how fizzy it still is. I left mine for 2 hours open then recapped them. They are still very fizzy.

Finally, CO2 dissolves a lot more at colder temperatures. If you are still worried about bottles exploding, put them somewhere cold - the garage or a fridge. Both of these have the benefit of chilling it (dissolving more CO2, reducing the pressure) and also being something that can contain the shrapnel if another one explodes.

Stay safe.

 

[Agentgonzo]

So do you think it wasn't done fermenting before I bottled? Maybe I was naive but assumed 1.008 was a safe bottling fg especially for this yeast but I'm still a beginner

My best guess is no, it hadn't. That's the simplest explanation.

 

[moto748]

So do you think it wasn't done fermenting before I bottled? Maybe I was naive but assumed 1.008 was a safe bottling fg especially for this yeast but I'm still a beginner

I used Google search and the average was 5g per litre for batch priming

How much does you use?

Around 2.3 g for stouts, wheat beers and suchlike, 1.7-1.9 g for bitters, per bottle. So double that for per litre.

Although as other posters have suggested, I doubt that priming is the only factor at play in your case.

 

[New_to_Brew]

Just as an aside, you mention "Kilner" bottles - personally I would only use fliptops which are actual beer bottles or marketed as such. I see a lot of fliptops which are suitable only for still liquids or even just for decoration - especially those where the glass appears to be uneven.

This probably my main concern because if it's just weak bottles I will have to either drink 9 litres this weekend or transfer to other bottles

I've had experiences where M20 stalled for a week, then continued to carbonate afterwards. From a search on the forum, a bunch of others have too. Though we all seemed to have it stall at 1.020.

There is a chance that it stalled at 1.008, then restarted and attenuated further. Take some of the beer - your foam will do if you still have some of it. Degas it (shake it loads), let it settle, then take a gravity reading of it. I'm sure it'll be lower than 1.008.

6g/L is a sensible amount for a moderately fizzy beer. That alone won't have made the bottles explode.

How did you add the sugar? Was it just raw crystalised sugar, or did you boil it up in sugar solution. There is a possibility that the sugar had bacterial contamination on it and that's continued to metabolise your unfermentable sugars.

Have you used a diastaticus (saison) yeast recently? I had this where (I think, I'm still not sure) I had a hefe hugely over-card (but not to the point where the bottles exploded). I put this down to residual saison yeast in the fermerter/bottles that continued to break down the longer sugars and overcard the beer.

Be very careful moving the bottles now. Exploding glass can be very dangerous. You are right to relieve the pressure however you can. Pop-tops are really handy for this as it is very easy to open them, let the offgas and then reseal them. I would advise leaving them for at least a few hours with the caps open (though resting on the top to prevent stuff falling in and reduce oxygen ingress) as the beer is already at a very high carbonation level. If you just release the pressure in the bottle and reseal, the beer will still be hugely carbonated and you are still at risk. Leaving it for a few hours will allow a moderate amount of CO2 to escape. When you are thinking about resealing the bottles, maybe take one and pour it into a glass (and test it, obviously) to see how fizzy it still is. I left mine for 2 hours open then recapped them. They are still very fizzy.

Finally, CO2 dissolves a lot more at colder temperatures. If you are still worried about bottles exploding, put them somewhere cold - the garage or a fridge. Both of these have the benefit of chilling it (dissolving more CO2, reducing the pressure) and also being something that can contain the shrapnel if another one explodes.

Stay safe.

Thank you so much that's immensely helpful advice, theyve been left sealed for the day as I'm at work, hopefully when I get back the kitchen isn't a bomb site

I'll do exactly what you've said, I've got a brick shed In the garden which is very cold that I'll pop them all in

 

[Agentgonzo]

This probably my main concern because if it's just weak bottles I will have to either drink 9 litres this weekend or transfer to other bottles

I know which one I'd prefer!!! Even if you have weak bottles you can pop them open, leave them to de-fizz until you are comfortable sealing them again. If you leave the cap just resting on the top, any CO2 that comes off will 'burp' out every now and again, but the simple weight of the cap resting on the top will effectively seal them from stuff getting in from the outside for the few hours/day that you let them depressurise.

 

[Agentgonzo]

didn't mix the dissolved sugar enough

Did you batch prime, or individually in bottles? This is another simple explanation. Were all of your bottles overcarbonated? If not, then it points to some of your bottles getting a lot more sugar (and thus exploding) than others.

 

[New_to_Brew]

Did you batch prime, or individually in bottles? This is another simple explanation. Were all of your bottles overcarbonated? If not, then it points to some of your bottles getting a lot more sugar (and thus exploding) than others.

I batch primed and stirred for a good few minutes, I'm conscious about stirring too much in case I introduce too much oxygen.

Some but not all the bottles did start violently throwing yeast sediment around from the bottom of the bottle

Guess I've got to be a bit more careful and maybe steer away from kilner bottles as well as everything you've mentioned

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Are your bottles beer bottles ie pressure vessels or Kilner bottles? If the latter rebottle into beer bottles. I have never batched primed as I use a teaspoon and funnel.

 

[chthon]

When I brewed a Leffe clone with M20, I let it lager a couple of weeks to clear it.
Someone on the Flemish HBF mentioned Leffe being a kind of cristal weizen, so I tried it that way (30 wheat, 70% pilsner malt). It worked very well; the day after I tasted the first bottle I was at the liquor store and there was a dispenser where I could taste fresh Leffe. They tasted the same.

 

[VW911]

Not all "flip-top" bottles are the same.
Some are not meant for carbonated drinks - Kilner ones are prime example....

 

[VW911]

Sorry, @klaus - skimmed the topic, and didn't see your post!