Grainmaster etc Vs 3 tier system

[Bashley]

I'm new to homebrewing and have only just started on the kits - I've got the bug! . I'm trying to educate myself on all grain possibilities and was wondering what system I'd need. I'd like to have a system in the future that can handle 40 pints as I don't have much time to do small batches. Kids etc!
The grainmaster is speaking to me but I feel that I would in some way be cheating, or at least lose the experience of doing it from scratch. Anyway, just looking for some advice on wether to go fo an all in one systme of an AG starter kit like his one https://www.brewuk.co.uk/all-grain-starter-set.html
Appreciate the help!
P.S We have gas hobs at home but no idea what temp they can reach. We're thinking of going induction.

 

[-Bezza-]

Perhaps have a try and this and see how you get on? https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/have-a-go-at-simple-ag.51779/

 

[Dmet]

I brewed kits years ago and wanted to get into it again. I thought about a 3 tier system but opted for the Bulldog Brewer V3. It is all in one (someone quipped it was like a bread maker for beer) and I have done 2 brews and it is straight forward and takes up little space. I can't comment on the other way and I am sure you will get both sides of the argument.

 

[AdeDunn]

I tried doing BIAB on our stove, don't go there if you want larger volumes! I really struggled to get a good boil on anything more than 14 litres. Ended up going out and buying an ACE mash tun boiler (ACE aren't trading any more, but I believe Klarstein do a nice one) for BIAB. The lack of a recirculation pump though does lengthen the brew day, vorlaufing by hand to try to get clear wort.

If you are wanting larger volumes, or to just brew with larger grain bills (anything with imperial in the name for example) you might like to look at something like this: http://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/brew-devil/312-50l-brew-devil-micro-brewery.html. Not a Grainfather by any means, but similar and a lot larger.

Or, if you are happy with 15-23 litres (depending on how much grain you have to use), then a 30 litre system like a Grainfater, or a smaller Brewdevil/Hopcat/Klarstein/Bulldog clone, or even a BIAB system like the Klarstein Maischfest, or the cheaper Beerfest (which is identical to my ACE) will do the job if you don't mind losing recirculation pump feature.

It all depends on your budget and time constraints.

 

[jceg316]

I started off wit ha Peco boiler and home made mash tun. They broke pretty quickly and I've been through a few Pecos in my time. I've also had a stainless steel two tier HERMS which was great, however there was usually some problem with it: taps leaked, element stopped working, pump cavitating all the time etc. I moved to a smaller house and bought a grainfather as it's small and has good reviews.

I love the grainfather, I can make fantastic beer with it and have not looked back. I'm not into DIY or building things so I can concentrate on recipe creation and brewing, and not building and fixing. The most you can comfortably brew is 25 litres, which is >40 pints to it ticks that box.

 

[Bashley]

I don't really fancy something which is automated and beeps when hops are due to be added etc. KInd of takes the fun out of it I think. But I also don't want to build things from scratch as A) I have have time B) I have the finances to make life a little easier. Would the Klarstein fit the bill in this case?

 

[-Bezza-]

I don't really fancy something which is automated and beeps when hops are due to be added etc. KInd of takes the fun out of it I think. But I also don't want to build things from scratch as A) I have have time B) I have the finances to make life a little easier. Would the Klarstein fit the bill in this case?

I guess if you buy an all-in-one system, you don't have to use all the whizzy features if you don't want; if you buy a 3-pot system, you never have the choice. I've not done any all grain yet but spent a lot of time deliberating over things and researching - current thinking is swaying towards the new Bulldog Master Brewer, which should be available shortly. For me, it looks to have the quality at a good price, and with a controller that is not as well designed as the Grainfather's, so enough to keep you on your toes!

That's why I was suggesting some BIAB brewing to start with (as I'm going to do). My theory is that, whilst it will be small batches to start with, I'm hoping that three or four attempts will give me enough basic knowledge and experience to know what I'm enjoying or not enjoying about the process and potentially allow me to make a more informed decision when going for an all-in-one solution. :thumb:

 

[Fil]

a G/f or Karlstein machine would be grand, fwiw i have brewed with both a diy 3 vessel brewery and a grainfather.. both produce great beers so go with your gut and get what works for you, you can always add to a single vessel brewery with a small sparge tank/hlt. its one of the great aspects of brewing that there isnt one right way to brew, but a multitude of practices you can pick n choose to adopt

 

[Bashley]

Thanks guys. Does the Karlstein come with everything I need or will I have to buy a cooler etc?

 

[svenito]

We spoke about this at our last meetup and concensus was that automated systems, while great and easy, take a lot of the fun and experience away. If you want to make beer with minimal hassle, these systems would be great. If you want to get stuck in and be fully hands on, jury rig some kit, and generally just try out different techniques and equipment, I'd go with the mashtun setup.

Might be more work, but as the great Mrs Doyle said "Maybe I like the misery"

 

[simon12]

I prefer a mash tun partly because not needing a pump is one less thing to go wrong. I have used a 30l plastic bucket with 2 £5 kettle elements and a budget cool box mash tun for years with no issues with either. Now thinking about it the bazooka did come off the fitting once in the mash tun.

 

[Braindead]

I only have a 2 tier system, Its not ideal but manage to make it work.
I too was deliberating between a GF or maybe knocking another HL tank up with a HERMS SYSTEM.
In a bit of a dilemma.
Room is an issue too, If you have heaps of room go for the 3 tier, but the GF does have a lot smaller footprint.

 

[Saisonator]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bulldog-...583502?hash=item3b03c921ce:g:ElUAAOSw1p1am9hW

 

[Oneflewover]

I guess if you buy an all-in-one system, you don't have to use all the whizzy features if you don't want; if you buy a 3-pot system, you never have the choice. I've not done any all grain yet but spent a lot of time deliberating over things and researching - current thinking is swaying towards the new Bulldog Master Brewer, which should be available shortly. For me, it looks to have the quality at a good price, and with a controller that is not as well designed as the Grainfather's, so enough to keep you on your toes!

That's why I was suggesting some BIAB brewing to start with (as I'm going to do). My theory is that, whilst it will be small batches to start with, I'm hoping that three or four attempts will give me enough basic knowledge and experience to know what I'm enjoying or not enjoying about the process and potentially allow me to make a more informed decision when going for an all-in-one solution. :thumb:

I agree. You can make very good beer with a stock pot, grain bag and thermometer plus the usual bits and pieces you will already have as a kit brewer. Get a feel for the process and then make an informed decision about which route to take.

 

[Saisonator]

Even if you start with a Burco and bag you can always use the Burco later on as a sparge water heater.

 

[AdeDunn]

It's a bit pricey for what is basically a BIAB system, but this one might be worth a look for you https://www.klarstein.co.uk/Home-ap...1500-3000W-25l-LCD-Touch-Stainless-Steel.html. Immersion wort cooler comes with, and instead of a bag you get a metal basket and a ring to sit it on over the boiler whilst it drains the grain after mashing. A big con though is the 3000watt setting, that won't just boil the wort, it'll evaporate it. lol Dunno how well the 1500 watt boils, as I don't have one.

Thing is though, you'll still be using a timer to tell you when to add your hops etc, whether it's built in or on your phone, or in the form of a big dial... Seems to me you may as well have it on the machine, with a recirculation pump too so you can get lovely clear wort (BIAB tends to be infamous for cloudy wort, unless you spend a while recirculating by hand, which I have actually started doing).

You still have to weigh the grain and hops, dough in etc either way.

 

[Clint]

I too deliberated. ..in the end I bought two 32 litre boilers,one with tap,from malt miller,a big blue igloo mash tun,made a wort chiller. All because I had visions of an all in one breaking down..
I'm getting on great with my kit and have enjoyed getting used to it and what I need to be doing with it! It's easy to use and clean and is virtually bomb proof.

 

[Dmet]

Wow ebay bulldog a bargain. Not many second hand ones.

Like anything. You can be a martyr and make life hard or be lazy and buy an all in one. Is one better than another? Probably not. Because you work harder is it better? Your choice.

I am a metal detectorist. You can buy a cheap detector and find stuff but there is always that doubt in your mind that if you pay more will you find more? Reality is if you know your kit you are just as likely to achieve the same results. More you practice the better you get.

 

[Saisonator]

All the one pot systems with the exception of the Braumeister, have one flaw.
If the element packs up and the warranty has expired, the unit is basically scrap.

 

[Bashley]

All the one pot systems with the exception of the Braumeister, have one flaw.
If the element packs up and the warranty has expired, the unit is basically scrap.

Yep, I think this is the big concern. At some point it will die.