GrainFather bottled beer problem.

[andyn2001]

I've been brewing 10 years using Mash tun and boilers, bought a grainfather about 8 months ago, and I am having big probs with my bottle beers not staying fresh very long. They last about 6 weeks in bottles, then the hop aroma disappears and the taste goes a bit bitter, and they just lose flavour. I am racking my brains as to the cause and can only assume it's oxidation. Two places in the process worry me....the grainfather sparge where the wort splashes into the boiler, or when using the grainfather whirlpool paddle after the boil has finished.

Also, all the grain bits that get into the wort...I filter them out by recirculating the wort through a filter bag before I start the boil, I have been told that's because I get my grain pre crushed and it needs to be courser for the grainfather....but I'm not buying a malt crusher as well....does it make much difference using a courser crush?

Is anyone else finding issues with their finished beer staying fresh?? I am on the verge of getting rid of my grainfather and going back to separate mash tun and boiler, my beers were much better. I have thrown away so much beer over the last few months, (which I never had to do before) and a few I sampled tonight all had the same issues. They were good a few weeks ago, now they are about 6 weeks old they are completely different and not very good. But, i see so many raving reviews on here that it makes me thinks it's something I am doing.

Any thoughts?

 

[reddibaggie]

I've been brewing 10 years using Mash tun and boilers, bought a grainfather about 8 months ago, and I am having big probs with my bottle beers not staying fresh very long. They last about 6 weeks in bottles, then the hop aroma disappears and the taste goes a bit bitter, and they just lose flavour. I am racking my brains as to the cause and can only assume it's oxidation. Two places in the process worry me....the grainfather sparge where the wort splashes into the boiler, or when using the grainfather whirlpool paddle after the boil has finished.

Also, all the grain bits that get into the wort...I filter them out by recirculating the wort through a filter bag before I start the boil, I have been told that's because I get my grain pre crushed and it needs to be courser for the grainfather....but I'm not buying a malt crusher as well....does it make much difference using a courser crush?

Is anyone else finding issues with their finished beer staying fresh?? I am on the verge of getting rid of my grainfather and going back to separate mash tun and boiler, my beers were much better. I have thrown away so much beer over the last few months, (which I never had to do before) and a few I sampled tonight all had the same issues. They were good a few weeks ago, now they are about 6 weeks old they are completely different and not very good. But, i see so many raving reviews on here that it makes me thinks it's something I am doing.

Any thoughts?

Only three beers in on the Grainfather and the only problem I’m having is my flameout hops are not giving me the flavour or aroma I desire. Can’t explain why.
Although I keg I don’t bottle.


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[Saisonator]

Only three beers in on the Grainfather and the only problem I’m having is my flameout hops are not giving me the flavour or aroma I desire. Can’t explain why.
Although I keg I don’t bottle.


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You can do variations like add flame out hops then recirculate wort through chiller back into the GF and get it below 80c fairly rapidly before transfer to FV.
Or split flame out hops into two batches at flame out the the other half at 80c.

 

[jceg316]

I've done many brews on the grainfather and I can't say I've had that problem. I brew a lot of lagers and stouts which benefit from long conditioning times and drinking some 9+ months on they've been great.

For the grain crush i used to get my grains pre-crushed and I got a lot of grain bits in my brew, but they didn't seem to have a huge affect on the final product. If there were a lot I would sweep a fine sieve through to get as many out as possible. I started crushing my own grains and I did notice I had less bits in the boil, and I noticed the malt flavours in my beers came out a lot more. The Grainfather website has the right crush setting on their website (1.2mm IIRC) so you could ask your HBS if they could crush the malt to that setting.

What you describe sounds like what happens to a lot of bottle conditioned IPAs. Hop forward styles lose their flavour as hop character is the first to diminish, whilst malt and yeast flavours tend to improve with age. Are you making the same beers as previously and the only difference is the Grainfather? Are the recipes the same?

 

[treebeard]

I agree with jceg316 above my hop forward beers are best drunk fresh or indeed the hop flavour does diminish. My take on this style is; serve chilled drink fresh so I usually make smaller batches.

 

[Hoddy]

Sounds like you’ve got a bacterial infection somewhere. I had something similar a few years back and it took me months to work out it was my bottling cane and silicone pipe that was the culprit.

I ended up replacing all my plastic fermenters and pipes and that totally solved the problem. Once you get a certain bacterial infection you transfer it around between bottles, pipes, fermenters and the safest way is to ditch it all. I suspected I have it in some of my bottles. That’s how I ended up going to kegs.

It doesn’t sound like it’s got anything to do with your GF. More like a change in processes when moving to new kit has caught you out.

Update : I had exactly the same symptoms as you. Beer was good for 6 weeks in the bottles but it would deteriorate into a bitter tasteless beer. And would sometimes gush. Basically the bacteria would continue fermenting the alcohol and hop sugars and ruin the beer. Good luck.


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[Sadfield]

With the grainfather are you using a higher water to grain ratio on the mash, compared to what you would have done with your old system? Could it be that you aren't hitting the correct mash pH with a thinner mash? This could then have a knock on effect on the final pH of the fermented beer, which can affect shelf life.

Do you measure your mash pH? Do you do any water treatment?

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[Zephyr259]

I'm at 13 or 14 brews with the grainfather and my beers have had fine shelf life. They'll generally continue to improve up to 6 weeks then remain good for months. A counter flow chiller will affect flame out hops differently than an immersion chiller, but shouldn't be causing what you're seeing.

 

[xozzx]

I am racking my brains as to the cause and can only assume it's oxidation. Two places in the process worry me....the grainfather sparge where the wort splashes into the boiler, or when using the grainfather whirlpool paddle after the boil has finished.

Before you add your yeast you want as much oxygen in the wort as possible. These are definitely not the issue, you should be trying to maximise the oxidation.

 

[Spoon]

Before you add your yeast you want as much oxygen in the wort as possible. These are definitely not the issue, you should be trying to maximise the oxidation.

There's a different issue called hot side aeration which is getting oxygen in the wort whilst it's still hot, which theoretically produces some oxygenated compounds which then break down over a long period of time and ruin your beer.

There are two types of brewers, those that have read about it on the internet and try and avoid it. And those who have read on the internet that its hookum and ignore it.

Also:

Oxidation - a chemical reaction involving the gain of electrons by a compound (usually from oxygen, hence the name). This is what makes old beer taste like chewing a lump of paper.

Oxygenation - a physical process of dissolving oxygen into the wort. This is what helps yeast multiply.

 

[xozzx]

There's a different issue called hot side aeration which is getting oxygen in the wort whilst it's still hot, which theoretically produces some oxygenated compounds which then break down over a long period of time and ruin your beer.

Learn something new every day :-)

Thanks, this is not something I was aware of and will start trying to avoid. Brewing gets more complicated the more I read! Tho I guess my beer also improves so worth it...

 

[Spoon]

I'm in the camp that doesn't believe in it, I don't think any of the commercial brewing journals have found evidence of it, and quite a few home brewers have tried to deliberately cause it by adding oxygen at every step and not observed any effect (other than the yeast getting going quicker).

 

[MyQul]

I'm in the camp that doesn't believe in it, I don't think any of the commercial brewing journals have found evidence of it, and quite a few home brewers have tried to deliberately cause it by adding oxygen at every step and not observed any effect (other than the yeast getting going quicker).

I'm also in the camp of not believing in it. I no-chill and just chuck my near boiling wort from the kettle using a jug into a no-chill fv and never had a problem