Grain prices creeping up.

[Rodcx500z]

Don't forget we have a choice.

Yes we do have a choice, today i rang round a lot of brewery's i finished up paying 30 quid for a 25kg sack and bought some cans while i was there, they more than likely paid less than that, 40 sacks a tonne 40x30=1200 pounds my point is i was happy to pay that as a fair price, what i don't like is paying £42-00 a sack knowing i being fleeced

 

[Leon103]

Perhaps prices were cheaper because covid brought in a load more customers which a lot of since quit the hobby.

 

[An Ankoù]

Yes we do have a choice, today i rang round a lot of brewery's i finished up paying 30 quid for a 25kg sack and bought some cans while i was there, they more than likely paid less than that, 40 sacks a tonne 40x30=1200 pounds my point is i was happy to pay that as a fair price, what i don't like is paying £42-00 a sack knowing i being fleeced

That's exactly the point. "knowing I'm being fleeced". Same with short measures: I'd prefer to drink in a pub where the beer is a tad dearer and get a full pint without having to ask for the glass to be topped up. The knowledge that staff have been instructed to systematically fleece the customers if they can get away with it is sickening.

 

[lancon]

Yes we do have a choice, today i rang round a lot of brewery's i finished up paying 30 quid for a 25kg sack and bought some cans while i was there, they more than likely paid less than that, 40 sacks a tonne 40x30=1200 pounds my point is i was happy to pay that as a fair price, what i don't like is paying £42-00 a sack knowing i being fleeced

I think that you probably paid wholesale price + vat from the brewery, TMM charging 37 + vat doesn't seem that unusual, 30% over wholesale for a one stop supplier isn't unreasonable. I might suggest sub prices are pre price rise stock?

 

[MickDundee]

I think that you probably paid wholesale price + vat from the brewery, TMM charging 37 + vat doesn't seem that unusual, 30% over wholesale for a one stop supplier isn't unreasonable. I might suggest sub prices are pre price rise stock?

There’s a chance they didn’t charge him VAT - they didn’t get charged VAT when they bought it and they don’t ordinarily sell to the public/homebrewers so there’s the potential there that they didn’t know.

£30 + VAT + overheads + a small profit margin will be pretty close to £40 a sack!

 

[Tripps]

Back of the fag packet stuff here, so Agentgonzo feel free to help me out on the maths. Our new 2023 prices (from a well known maltster and in line with most out there give or take) equate to £25.16 per 25kg sack of pale malt, delivered straight to the brewery door. This doesn't include the tenner we give to the driver to help us unload to a "non kerb side destination". The home brew companies will need to collect VAT, so that takes a bag to £30.19. So whatever they charge will have to include labour, electricity, rates, rent etc... I'd have thought a 25% - 30% margin would cover costs and leave a small profit? So £37.75 to £39.25 would seem reasonable before shipping. Now, I don't smoke and I found the fag packed in the verge, so my maths may be a bit soggy.

 

[Kush1960]

Thought I’d share this for anyone in the Midlands looking for 25kg sacks.
Supplies For Professional Brewers & Winemakers | Murphy & Son sell them for £23.50 (Crisp/Simpson’s) MO. Including VAT!
You have to apply for an account which takes a couple of days for them to set up, and payment is by phone or online invoice.
They are primarily industry suppliers, but happy to supply us homebrewers. Seem like nice people too.
Only problem is postage costs. I think they’re used to sending pallets out, so it’s expensive. Either buy a year’s supply in one go or go and collect it yourself, which I plan on doing.

 

[Birdsnestbrewery]

I'm still convinced that somebody, somewhere along the line (and I suspect it's either the grain suppliers or the malsters) are trousering a pretty penny. Even so, some homebrew suppliers are showing increases well north of £7.50 a sack and I wonder why?
I suspect that price fixing for grain is based on a similar racket cartel system that fixes the price of electricity, whereby the most economical producers have to charge the same as the most expensive producer and money just falls into their laps. @the baron has got the measure of things and I won't repeat it all here, but let's be very sure that we, the brewers and the retailers are being fleeced, shafted, taken for a bunch of Dane kings, etc etc, while some here only want to make excuses for the poor darlings. But they've got us by the short and curlies unless we all decide to grow our own and how many of us can do that?

Welcome to capitalism. Buy as cheap as you can get, sell as high as you can get away with - it's called the market. I too would like cheap grain but it's just how a market works. The only thing that's illegal is agreements between suppliers not to undercut each other, ie price fixing.

 

[DaleMC]

Thought I’d share this for anyone in the Midlands looking for 25kg sacks.
Supplies For Professional Brewers & Winemakers | Murphy & Son sell them for £23.50 (Crisp/Simpson’s) MO. Including VAT!
You have to apply for an account which takes a couple of days for them to set up, and payment is by phone or online invoice.
They are primarily industry suppliers, but happy to supply us homebrewers. Seem like nice people too.
Only problem is postage costs. I think they’re used to sending pallets out, so it’s expensive. Either buy a year’s supply in one go or go and collect it yourself, which I plan on doing.

Imagine that they don't charge VAT as they're a brewers supplies co and brewing grains for commercial use aren't subject to VAT - good news if you're near somewhere that sells on a trade basis.

 

[user 4749]

I brew as I enjoy brewing for myself , family and friends . The cost of living has obviously had an effect on Leccy grain etc . I happened to say to my brother grain was getting expensive and I was going to cut back on what I brew . Miraculously I came home last night from the Rugby to find a 25kg Sack of Crisps Best Malt need to ask him where he got it . I think he is trying to tell me something .

 

[An Ankoù]

Indignation where It's due, I say. I'm amazed at the number of folk who are just indifferent to being shafted. Even supporting our excusing their greed. It takes stoicism to a whole new level

Is it stoicism or is it moral cowardice? Discuss.

 

[The Baron]

Thankyou for your info Tring so I have done some sums from your figures.
So last year you was buying grain @ £7.50 a 25kg bag less than the 2023 price, so that is 2023 price of
Grain Cost £927.50
+ Delivery £ 65.0
Total £992.50
Divided by 40 to give a 25kg sack =£24.81 ex vat
last year you paid £7.50 per sack less so that is £17.31 per sack in 2022 and I am surmising this was fixed throughout 2022
I was buying in 2022 25kg of Minch pale malt for £16.83 ex vat (march 2022 which included their costs and profit built in)so less than the fixed price you had. Is this fixed price individual to each brewer as it seems that larger volume users do get a different price.
Now going on that that they sold to me at below your supply price and using your 2023 fixed price of they would be selling on a pro rata price increase for less than your 2023 price of £24.81 + vat to a homebrewer which is less than £30 a sack and these figures already have their handling charges and overheads plus their profit built in.
This tells me that different prices applies to different users and that people should be selling at £30 to £32 a 25kg bag.
I thank you for your input and as it is the only true figure we have at this moment in time I have used them to try and dig to the bottom of what is really happening.
Please do not take that I am disputing your figures or questioning them at all and appreciate your input as it has helped me to make sense and put some quantifiable numbers to this and I still am of the thoughts that we are being had over from a situation that seems rife amongst businesses that they can hoodwink the public whether it be brewing supplies or any other service

 

[user 4749]

Seems to me best place to buy your grains is from your local brewery if you have one near you and they will sell them to you .My nearest place to buy is Crafty Maltsters at £28.50 for 25kg of Pale Malt though I have enough stock at present . I will probably go and get one at that price though I have never tried their malt before so question is whats it like?

 

[lancon]

Imagine that they don't charge VAT as they're a brewers supplies co and brewing grains for commercial use aren't subject to VAT - good news if you're near somewhere that sells on a trade basis.

Beer is deemed food, therefore no VAT, homebrewing is deemed leisure, so VAT.

 

[An Ankoù]

Seems to me best place to buy your grains is from your local brewery if you have one near you and they will sell them to you .My nearest place to buy is Crafty Maltsters at £28.50 for 25kg of Pale Malt though I have enough stock at present . I will probably go and get one at that price though I have never tried their malt before so question is whats it like?

I had a bag of Pop's shipped to France. Shipping would probably be too dear now and I've got plenty of malt.
The malt is excellent: good flavour, good extraction, and if you order it milled, it's milled quite fine. I'd certainly use it again.

 

[lancon]

Indignation where It's due, I say. I'm amazed at the number of folk who are just indifferent to being shafted. Even supporting our excusing their greed. It takes stoicism to a whole new level

Is it stoicism or is it moral cowardice? Discuss.

I think that the problem is that there has been a rise in prices from the maltster, the wholesale price was held down and has just taken a big jump, (positively speaking last year I saved half the increase). There have been massive increases across all the areas that maltsters need (transport/fuel and heating fuel/gas). I don't think (as I have put in earlier) that the HB suppliers are shafting, the 30% add on is about the going rate to cover their overheads. And you can get everything from them so reducing different suppliers shipping.

Who is shafting us is the government, allowing for these massive price rises in power costs.

(And I just checked Pops malt with shipping £40)

 

[Nottsbeer]

Thought I’d share this for anyone in the Midlands looking for 25kg sacks.
Supplies For Professional Brewers & Winemakers | Murphy & Son sell them for £23.50 (Crisp/Simpson’s) MO. Including VAT!
You have to apply for an account which takes a couple of days for them to set up, and payment is by phone or online invoice.
They are primarily industry suppliers, but happy to supply us homebrewers. Seem like nice people too.
Only problem is postage costs. I think they’re used to sending pallets out, so it’s expensive. Either buy a year’s supply in one go or go and collect it yourself, which I plan on doing.

I purchased a sack from them last month - excellent company. They did note that prices would increase after Feb....haven't checked as yet.

 

[lancon]

I purchased a sack from them last month - excellent company. They did note that prices would increase after Feb....haven't checked as yet.

£28.50

 

[lancon]

plus VAT £34.20

 

[Tripps]

Thankyou for your info Tring so I have done some sums from your figures.
So last year you was buying grain @ £7.50 a 25kg bag less than the 2023 price, so that is 2023 price of
Grain Cost £927.50
+ Delivery £ 65.0
Total £992.50
Divided by 40 to give a 25kg sack =£24.81 ex vat
last year you paid £7.50 per sack less so that is £17.31 per sack in 2022 and I am surmising this was fixed throughout 2022
I was buying in 2022 25kg of Minch pale malt for £16.83 ex vat (march 2022 which included their costs and profit built in)so less than the fixed price you had. Is this fixed price individual to each brewer as it seems that larger volume users do get a different price.
Now going on that that they sold to me at below your supply price and using your 2023 fixed price of they would be selling on a pro rata price increase for less than your 2023 price of £24.81 + vat to a homebrewer which is less than £30 a sack and these figures already have their handling charges and overheads plus their profit built in.
This tells me that different prices applies to different users and that people should be selling at £30 to £32 a 25kg bag.
I thank you for your input and as it is the only true figure we have at this moment in time I have used them to try and dig to the bottom of what is really happening.
Please do not take that I am disputing your figures or questioning them at all and appreciate your input as it has helped me to make sense and put some quantifiable numbers to this and I still am of the thoughts that we are being had over from a situation that seems rife amongst businesses that they can hoodwink the public whether it be brewing supplies or any other service

I can't comment on minch, as we've never dealt with them. All I can tell you is our price (from probably the largest maltsters in the UK) and it'll broadly be the same for craft breweries in the UK (and some home brew suppliers I'd have thought) . We're each given a craft brewery manager who set the price on a yearly basis, but I believe most are paying broadly the same. We didn't have to pay for delivery in previous years either, so that's something that's changed for us too. So bottom line is we paid £25.16 per 25kg last delivery (this includes the delivery charge - whether it's a full pallet of not. Our last pallet was only 3/4 full for various reasons, so we could shave a bit off if the pallet was full as you suggest). We've shopped around too and most maltsters are the same price give or take. Tbh, it's not our biggest concern. Energy prices are the real killer:/