Graham Wheelers Adnams Broadside, anyone brewed it?

[Galena]

GW has the recipe as 4.8% ABV Challenger and Fuggle Hops and a fair bit of sugar
Roger Protz in his 4th edition has it as 4.7% Fuggles, Challenger and also Goldings, plus the sugar.
Adnams themselves (okay it is many years later so things may have changed) have the bottled version at 6.3% and mention First Gold Hops?

So I was wondering if any of you have made this, which yeast you used how it came out and anything you would do differently?

 

[Galena]

One thing I have found on this is this BLOG POST on the Admans site which describes the differences between bottled and cask Broadside, it does help with recipe creation hopefully

 

[trueblue]

I would say if you are trying to replicate the rather than brew a beer "in the style of" the yeast is the key. Adnams maintain their own strain(s). This is reputed to be the original stain but not sure it's available all year
https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp025-southwold-ale-yeast

 

[Galena]

I would say if you are trying to replicate the rather than brew a beer "in the style of" the yeast is the key. Adnams maintain their own strain(s). This is reputed to be the original stain but not sure it's available all year
https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp025-southwold-ale-yeast

Thanks, whilst it does not have to be exact I would like to get the fruitcake esters of the original and the yeast will certainly play a major part in the flavour of this beer i think. I have put that into the recipe, it appears the cask and the bottled versions of Broadside are actually two completely different beers, so I have to assume the GW version at 4.8% was an attempt at the cask ale.

 

[user 18729]

I would say if you are trying to replicate the rather than brew a beer "in the style of" the yeast is the key. Adnams maintain their own strain(s). This is reputed to be the original stain but not sure it's available all year
https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp025-southwold-ale-yeast

I was going to say that the Adnams strain will get you 60% of the way there

 

[Galena]

I was going to say that the Adnams strain will get you 60% of the way there

Thanks ,yes. According to the Adnams website as well as Pale malt they use chocolate malt and Black malt, no mention of sugar though I don't suppose they would even if it was there. The problem is GW's recipe seems so far off as to be useless as far as the bottled version of this beer is concerned.

So what I have so far is:

ABV 6.3%

Fermentables
Pale Malt
Black malt
Chocolate malt

Hops
First Gold, Not sure if its likely there are other hops, Asdnams don't say there are, but they don't say there aren't either

Yeast
WLP025

From the Adnams site:
"The mashing regime is set so that both beers keep a lot of un-fermentable (residual) sugars in the beer. This gives Broadside its fullness, with the bottled version having more sugars / fullness than the cask version. The fermentation temperatures are slightly different too, the bottled version being slightly higher to help the yeast produce more ester flavours and aromas. Both beers use British First Gold hops as the bittering hop, with the bottled beer having some First Gold added as aroma hops towards the end of the boil. "

So presumably a high mash temperature to be more dextrinous, maybe as high as 70 degC?
Not sure about the fermentation temperature, WLP025 states 20 - 23 so not sure whether to go in low at 20 and ramp up to 23 or just go straight in at 23 degrees.

 

[trueblue]

You need to remember Graham devised the recipe over 10 years ago a lot has changed in that time.

 

[JT_Brews]

I've drunk Broadside frequently over a couple of decades, my mum lived in Southwold. For whatever reason Broadside in the bottle is a very different beer, much stronger, than the draft version. Graham's version sounds about right for the strength of the draft.

Adnams have changed quite a few of their recipes in recent years but I think Broadside draft is still fairly consistent.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Once I've drunk a bottle or two of broadside, I often fire a broadside or 2 much to Mrs DoJ's dismay. So there are definitely some unfermentables left in the bottle version

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

If you can get hold of one of the 5l mini casks of Broadside you could try cultivating the yeast from that. Will probably be a big step in replicating something in that style.
ive had some success getting close to that style using Wilko Gervin. Brewed one with that I really liked and which I’m proud to say was just one point off third place in the forum July dark beers completion.

 

[An Ankoù]

As for the yeast, an interesting experiment would be to get hold of a mini keg of Ghost Ship or similar and, with a couple of mates, drink the contents as quickly as possible. Adnam's claims the beer is racked bright into the keg, but there must be some residual yeast to build up the carbonation. They make no mention of either using a conditioning yeast or pasteurisation so it could well be a goer. But you do need to empty the keg quickly as air is drawn in to replace the beer.

 

[Galena]

As for the yeast, an interesting experiment would be to get hold of a mini keg of Ghost Ship or similar and, with a couple of mates, drink the contents as quickly as possible. Adnam's claims the beer is racked bright into the keg, but there must be some residual yeast to build up the carbonation. They make no mention of either using a conditioning yeast or pasteurisation so it could well be a goer. But you do need to empty the keg quickly as air is drawn in to replace the beer.

As it happens I have a 5l Keg of Ghost Ship sat less than 2 metres from me but no mates to drink it with. However it is only the Broadside as far as I can see where they actually state "Please be aware that if you are buying a mini-cask, this is a live beer and should be consumed within 2 weeks of purchase. " though again whether this is a conditioning yeast they do not say.

It is the bottled version I wish to try and get close to so from what I have gleaned from their WEBSITE is the following:
Pale, Black and Chocolate Malts to get to an ABV of 6.3%
First Gold Hops (no mention of any other)
Mash at (I am thinking) 70 degrees because they say:
"The mashing regime is set so that both beers keep a lot of un-fermentable (residual) sugars in the beer. This gives Broadside its fullness, with the bottled version having more sugars / fullness than the cask version. "

So my recipe so far is:
Batch Volume 21L (though I will scale this down to 10L for a trial batch)
6.2Kgs Maris Otter
160g Chocolate Malt
100g Black

30g First Gold @ 60
10g First Gold @ 15
25g First Gold @ 5

Mash at 70 degres for 60 mins though perhaps I need a stepped mash, but no idea really.

Yeast, WLP025 Southwold (unless I try some scavenged from a keg)

This gives me an OG of 1.069 and FG of 1.021 (6.3%ABV)
EBC is 48.5 which is much darker than GW's 37 but then he is talking about draught version and the bottled does look dark to me.
IBU 33
BU:GU 0.49

 

[Galena]

If you can get hold of one of the 5l mini casks of Broadside you could try cultivating the yeast from that. Will probably be a big step in replicating something in that style.
ive had some success getting close to that style using Wilko Gervin. Brewed one with that I really liked and which I’m proud to say was just one point off third place in the forum July dark beers completion.

Yes difficult to get Broadside in Keg here, and is it actually on the fermentation yeast or a carbonation yeast do you know?

 

[Hanglow]

They have both mini-casks and mini-kegs, it's the live mini casks you want . They don't seem to have any of those on their website at the moment.
https://www.adnams.co.uk/articles/all-about-adnams-mini-casks.htm
Fergus Firtzgerald, the head brewer, has said that he tried the WLP yeast to compare it to theirs which is a dual strain that is a complete ******* to maintain, but it wasn't similar enough for them to use. It could of course still make a very good beer I'm sure

On Jims there was a thread or two about the yeast, it apparently gets dominated by the more attenuative one and that drives down the FG too far if you reuse it more than a couple of times

 

[Galena]

They have both mini-casks and mini-kegs, it's the live mini casks you want . They don't seem to have any of those on their website at the moment.
https://www.adnams.co.uk/articles/all-about-adnams-mini-casks.htm
Fergus Firtzgerald, the head brewer, has said that he tried the WLP yeast to compare it to theirs which is a dual strain that is a complete ******* to maintain, but it wasn't similar enough for them to use. It could of course still make a very good beer I'm sure

On Jims there was a thread or two about the yeast, it apparently gets dominated by the more attenuative one and that drives down the FG too far if you reuse it more than a couple of times

Thanks, just watched the video. I did read about Adnams yeast somewhere but I can't find it now, that at some point last century they had an infection and lost the yeast, as a result of that they have the dual strain yeast. I'm not sure what WLP025 is supposed be then but I considered it was probably close enough not that it seems to be available anyway, so maybe the mini cask, if it becomes available will be my best course of action, I am not in a hurry as such.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Another option may be Adnams Tally ho which is bottle conditioned. Not sure if they use the same yeast for that though. If you can get hold of it but need the slurry from more than one bottle, at 7.2%, you might want to get someone else to drink the other bottle!

Edit. Looks like Tally ho is out of stock too.

 

[Galena]

Another option may be Adnams Tally ho which is bottle conditioned. Not sure if they use the same yeast for that though. If you can get hold of it but need the slurry from more than one bottle, at 7.2%, you might want to get someone else to drink the other bottle!

Edit. Looks like Tally ho is out of stock too.

A good job I'm not in a hurry

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Love a pint of broadside so it would be great to hear if this ends up somewhere near it. I was going to say that it definitely has First Gold in it, but you've already ascertained that....

 

[Galena]

Love a pint of broadside so it would be great to hear if this ends up somewhere near it. I was going to say that it definitely has First Gold in it, but you've already ascertained that....

Yes although Graham Wheeler and Roger Protz make no mention of First Gold even though Adnams say that bottled Broadside is the original recipe. Just got to figure out a yeast to use it seems I will not be able to get a Broadside Mini cask to harvest from and WLP025 Southwold Ale Yeast seems unavailable

 

[trueblue]

Fergus Firtzgerald, the head brewer, has said that he tried the WLP yeast to compare it to theirs which is a dual strain that is a complete ******* to maintain, but it wasn't similar enough for them to use. It could of course still make a very good beer I'm sure

On Jims there was a thread or two about the yeast, it apparently gets dominated by the more attenuative one and that drives down the FG too far if you reuse it more than a couple of times

I believe both the whitelabs and wyeast strains are not the same strain as the breweries they allegedly come from. To the best of my knowledge they adapt the strains to suit homebrewing conditions.