Getting a brewing license

[svenito]

I'm just curious what's involved in getting a license to brew beer. A friend of ours is in a position to take over a pub and was wondering what it would take to open a small brewery on the premises.
I'd love to offer to brew part time, but I am unsure about how much effort/cost is involved in getting all the required paperwork required.

Does anyone have any idea what is involved in getting a license etc to do this?

Apologies if this is the wrong forum for this post.

 

[ACBEV]

Its quite simple... You need to register as a brewer with HMRC and you can get duty discounts as a small scale brewery. As I understand duty regulations, once packaged for retail sale i.e. cask, keg, bottle or can, duty is due. You also will need to contact your local council and register as a food producer aka food hygiene regulations, including passing a course in food handling. Then it is probable you would need planning permission for a brewery in the premises, the council planning dep. would advise on that.

 

[svenito]

Its quite simple... You need to register as a brewer with HMRC and you can get duty discounts as a small scale brewery. As I understand duty regulations, once packaged for retail sale i.e. cask, keg, bottle or can, duty is due. You also will need to contact your local council and register as a food producer aka food hygiene regulations, including passing a course in food handling. Then it is probable you would need planning permission for a brewery in the premises, the council planning dep. would advise on that.

Very helpful thank you for detailing it out. A good starting point. Seems worth looking deeper into the details.

 

[jceg316]

I was once looking into opening a nanobrewery and read this: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/beer-duty which actually put me off. Long story short I'm not dedicated enough, was a lot of work, I would have had to produce much more than I intended to stay afloat, and at the end of the day the opportunity cost between becoming a brewer and my current day job was too great.

I've spoken to quite a few small brewery owners and asked where did they get the help and advice to start their breweries, and they all said SIBA. I think you need to be a paying member to access it though.

 

[svenito]

I was once looking into opening a nanobrewery and read this: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/beer-duty which actually put me off. Long story short I'm not dedicated enough, was a lot of work, I would have had to produce much more than I intended to stay afloat, and at the end of the day the opportunity cost between becoming a brewer and my current day job was too great.

I've spoken to quite a few small brewery owners and asked where did they get the help and advice to start their breweries, and they all said SIBA. I think you need to be a paying member to access it though.

This wouldn't be a full time gig, merely helping out a local pub *if* they decide to put a small brewery on the premises.

I wanted to get an idea on how much work and paperwork it would be to get something like this off the ground. So far it seems it might be worth looking more into the requirements.

 

[ACBEV]

I think your first port of call is HMRC... Google "HMRC beer duty" lots of useful info to be found...

 

[jceg316]

This wouldn't be a full time gig, merely helping out a local pub *if* they decide to put a small brewery on the premises.

I wanted to get an idea on how much work and paperwork it would be to get something like this off the ground. So far it seems it might be worth looking more into the requirements.

Best of luck to you. I don't mean to be off putting in any way, it's just laziness got the better of me .

If it does go ahead I'd be interested to hear how it ll goes.

 

[svenito]

Best of luck to you. I don't mean to be off putting in any way, it's just laziness got the better of me .

If it does go ahead I'd be interested to hear how it ll goes.

I have a friend opening a brewery full time. He keeps saying I should do it too. I always say that I like earning money :)

We shall see how it goes. If it goes ahead I will document the process of course

 

[simon12]

Being in a pub makes it a bit simpler as you will already be known to the council for food production, the HMRC forms look a nightmare but there not as bad as they initially look. If you ever want to sell beer to another pub or beer festival you need to register for AWRS see https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-alcohol-wholesaler-registration-scheme-awrs . You need to check with the council if you need planning permission but they may (or may not) consider that brewing is a normal activity for a pub as it was historically. Note I just got planning permission for a micro brew pub and will be doing the HMRC forms shortly.

 

[Druncan]

Exactly as @simon12 said! I would also apply for warehousing and conditional release with a designated holder of beer (you) also look at product liability insurance. NFU have a specialist team we use them and they have been cost effective and now cover all our business operation. Food handling level 2 is the minimum, but get level 3 ASAP as that covers more HACCP and then possibly look at FSA eatsafe/cooksafe as a simple free documented QA system? https://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/multimedia/pdfs/publication/eataafetradebrochure.pdf

 

[pbibby]

We did this last year, and found HMRC very helpful. Read notice 226. It took only 3 weeks from sending in the application forms (brewery reg and awrs) to receiveing the registration certificates . There is no cost other than a stamp . If the pub has a kitchen it will be registered with environmental health . A level two food handlers certificate online course costs £12 . We use the pub kitchen one day a week to brew and as the kitchen uses the FSA safer food better business pack you don't need a haccp .
The paperwork involved in the brewery is quite simple . You just need a spread sheet and an acvount ledger that you record every purchase and sale so HMRC have a paper trail they can follow if they decide to inspect you .
Notice 226 is a massive document but tells you everything you need to know .
Go for it . We planned to do it for 20 years, but kept putting it off . It's been a great experience.

 

[Trom-man76]

We did this last year, and found HMRC very helpful. Read notice 226. It took only 3 weeks from sending in the application forms (brewery reg and awrs) to receiveing the registration certificates . There is no cost other than a stamp . If the pub has a kitchen it will be registered with environmental health . A level two food handlers certificate online course costs £12 . We use the pub kitchen one day a week to brew and as the kitchen uses the FSA safer food better business pack you don't need a haccp .
The paperwork involved in the brewery is quite simple . You just need a spread sheet and an acvount ledger that you record every purchase and sale so HMRC have a paper trail they can follow if they decide to inspect you .
Notice 226 is a massive document but tells you everything you need to know .
Go for it . We planned to do it for 20 years, but kept putting it off . It's been a great experience.

Hi pbibby

Just interested trying to go down the same route setting up nanobrewery in garage. I have outlets at a cricket club and community pub.
Is it best to go ltd or not for tax purposes - i think sole trader myself. Could anyone advise who has bothered telling the tax man!
The hmrc seems ok and am just truging through the haccp stuff for enviromental health.
Look forward to any info anyone can offer.

 

[pbibby]

I'd definitely recommend staying as a sole trader. As a ltd co you have another level of accounts to provide each year for companies house. Your never going to make more than a few pounds profit if you're lucky, due to economies of scale so make the paperwork as easy as possible.

 

[-Bezza-]

I'd definitely recommend staying as a sole trader. As a ltd co you have another level of accounts to provide each year for companies house. Your never going to make more than a few pounds profit if you're lucky, due to economies of scale so make the paperwork as easy as possible.

I don't necessarily agree with that. As a sole trader, you would have unlimited liability which means all of the debts of the business are your debts. So let's say in a worse case scenario you kill someone with the beer you produce, if they sue you and the insurance doesn't cover the costs, you have to sell your house etc to cover any costs. That is a completely extreme example, but worth bearing in mind.

The cost of maintaining a limited company aren't massive - a few hundred quid each year, which may well eat up the profits you make, but if you're playing around with such small numbers, a nanobrewery isn't exactly going to be your pension.

Personally, I'd give some thought to forming the nanobrewery as part of the community pub. It's likely to be a bit easier in terms of getting registered etc, locks in at least one customer, gives some legitimacy to the brewery, adds to the community spirit, takes the risk away from you etc. From your personal perspective, you can loan any equipment to the pub rather than need the pub to buy it and you can invoice them for your time and use of equipment on a consultancy basis - so you're not out of pocket. If it's successful, you then have options to bring it into a company or your own business at a later date.

 

[Trom-man76]

Bezza

Thanks for that - you scared the s%$£ out of me! I will look into the ltd company. just going through the community pub process. stopped the pub being pulled down for building plots and got the ACV in place. Just started fund raising to purchase.
Was hoping to get myself all set-up and running so that could transfer the brewery site to the pub when acquired.
I have the kit to produce approx. 3-400 pints a weekend which I bottle at present but if the pub gets going will keg.
Have 4 beers as my staple brews which everyone likes (ESB, golden ale, blonde and IPA) and will do more exotic brews as I get settled
Any tips/things to avoid will be much appreciated
cheers

 

[Cwrw666]

Don't forget you'll need third party insurance anyway which should cover you in case you do poison someone, rather than doing the whole limited company thing.

 

[pbibby]

As adove, blackriars insurance. Ours cost approx £150 per £million of third party liability. I've been a director previously and I'm currently a director of a much larger company and unless your planning brew dog style growth or market domination I'd stick with sole trader for now. In our first financial year weve made a paper loss of nearly 2k, as a sole trader it just means less tax to pay, as a ltd co you'd have to pay an accountant to sort it out. You can always become ltd later if you do expand .It takes no time to set up a ltd co, you can do it online in five minutes for £12, but it comes with a lot of responsibility down the line.

 

[Trom-man76]

Just had a chat with a nice lady from brewcover and approx £200 - £280 for third party cover, building cover and cover for transportation of goods and cover at farmers markets so on. Sounds a good deal but advised to contact home insurer as might not cover certain items if brewing from home. Anyone had better offers?

Chris

 

[simon12]

In 2015 I paid £273 for a 1 bbl brewery but that covered stock, employers liability, public liability, equipment breakdown and loads more, if you want PM me your email address and I will send you the quote.