Gas regulator - should they also vent to maintain target

[Brewmastermk]

Hi all,
New to regulators and I have just bought a kegland mk4 for nitrogen.
I’m a little surprised it doesn’t maintain target pressure even in case of over pressure, but I’m just a little surprised.
Are there such things as regulators that maintain a target range, so will vent if pressure increases (eg temp change)?

I thinkthe simple answer is that after conditioning there is no reason to expect much pressure increase other than that delivered by the regulator, so it’s simply not needed?

just curious really, and I can’t see that anyone else has asked the question…

cheers,
Mark

 

[Joust]

Seems a good way to empty a cylinder!

 

[Brewmastermk]

Seems a good way to empty a cylinder!

you could be right, I figured this particular stupid question was certainly worth asking though. I imagine such a reg must exist, but maybe not in this application….

 

[Joust]

you could be right, I figured this particular stupid question was certainly worth asking though. I imagine such a reg must exist, but maybe not in this application….

I think as soon as the temperature fluctuates then it'll blow off some gas. Then when it cools will gas up. Then repeat until you're empty.

 

[peebee]

Regulators come in two distinct "flavours": Venting and non-venting.

Examples of "non-venting" are the LPG regulators I often recommend for very low-pressure use. They are also used for LPG which you never want to see venting (boom!). They are also used for toxic gases. Some cheap regulators will be non-venting because no-one made them with the added expense of functional venting ability. Some are non-venting because the ability will be quite un-necessary.

Of venting regulators, which are the commonest type, the accuracy is very variable. Some used on air compressors can be perfectly accurate, but hopeless with cylinder gas as they do tend to be a little "leaky" (as mentioned above; an effective way of emptying a cylinder). Some are good and I use such regulators as very accurate "spunding valves". And others are a bit unpredictable and ... well ... naff!

 

[Brewmastermk]

Regulators come in two distinct "flavours": Venting and non-venting.

Examples of "non-venting" are the LPG regulators I often recommend for very low-pressure use. They are also used for LPG which you never want to see venting (boom!). They are also used for toxic gases. Some cheap regulators will be non-venting because no-one made them with the added expense of functional venting ability. Some are non-venting because the ability will be quite un-necessary.

Of venting regulators, which are the commonest type, the accuracy is very variable. Some used on air compressors can be perfectly accurate, but hopeless with cylinder gas as they do tend to be a little "leaky" (as mentioned above; an effective way of emptying a cylinder). Some are good and I use such regulators as very accurate "spunding valves". And others are a bit unpredictable and ... well ... naff!

thanks for that detail. So it sounds like the Kegland Reg I have is effectively a cheap non venting regulator? It does have a safety valve on it but I guess that’s not what is meant by VENTING? I assume the venting type is Controlled Venting and can be adjusted using a valve on the regulator?
Cheers

 

[peebee]

I'm not putting down Kegland regulators but based on one other report it probably is non venting. Venting regulators won't have any adjustment, and probably won't even declare they are "venting". The Shako NR200 (secondary) regulators I will dual purpose as "spunding valves" certainly do not declare they are of the "venting type". But they do vent at about 40% over set pressure, a figure I derived from trials. It's not a feature the manufacturers are going to boast about, it's just one of those things we can use to our advantage (and a lot more accurate than a safety valve).

P.S. Using regulators as "spunding valves" does require pressure to be applied to the "input" even though that pressure isn't used directly (provides "back pressure"). Some people cannot handle this "oddity".

 

[Brewmastermk]

I'm not putting down Kegland regulators but based on one other report it probably is non venting. Venting regulators won't have any adjustment, and probably won't even declare they are "venting". The Shako NR200 (secondary) regulators I will dual purpose as "spunding valves" certainly do not declare they are of the "venting type". But they do vent at about 40% over set pressure, a figure I derived from trials. It's not a feature the manufacturers are going to boast about, it's just one of those things we can use to our advantage (and a lot more accurate than a safety valve).

P.S. Using regulators as "spunding valves" does require pressure to be applied to the "input" even though that pressure isn't used directly (provides "back pressure"). Some people cannot handle this "oddity".

Great, thanks for the explanation. I guess I was trying to get my head straight on them before I buy a second one for CO2 in case I’d missed out on a feature with my kegland. Would you have any recommendations for a brand of specific regulator to invest in for CO2 use on a Cornelius keg? From my perspective all I have to go on is price, and the range s 50-1000 so any recommendations from someone like yourself who knows their onions would be interesting. At my level Kegland still probably suits, but still be interested to know…

cheers

 

[peebee]

Thanks for that. I wrote this a while ago that may be useful?

CO2 Management Primer

I'm very much a follower of the "compound" model; using secondary regulators to dish gas out to individual kegs. Using LPG regulators for very low pressure (<4psi) and NR200s (L2 variant - 30psi ought to be enough for anyone) for everything else. This model can easily work with any "primary" (cylinder) regulator, including the Kegland one (might need a thread adapter to deal with the leaks?) [EDIT: Ignore that last comment; I'm mixing this up with another on-going thread!].

For "mixed gas" you might use the L4 variant secondary (good to 60psi). Secondary regulators won't care what the gas is as you don't connect them to a cylinder which have the range of kookie threads (secondary regulators usually have a 10BAR, sometimes sixteen, maximum input). I don't approve of mixed gas for home-brew, so I am not the best person to question on its use.

 

[peebee]

... The Shako NR200 (secondary) regulators I will dual purpose as "spunding valves" certainly do not declare they are of the "venting type". ...

"Not declared"? Not the case now: NR200 Model - SHAKO

And proclaiming use of better accuracy "diaphragm" mechanisms. I like to think I've been part instrumental in that, egotistic turnip that I am