Gales 1977 Silver Jublilee (Yeast)

[MyQul]

Last year I won a haul of nine 1977 Silver Jubilee celebration ales on ebay. I tried culturing up the Courage one. It had yeast in it and cultured up. But on trying the final step up it had an odd taste to the starter, so I decided to bin it. Here's the thread

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/courage-1977-silver-jubilee-ale-yeast.78443/page-2

Since then I'm mostly been doing pseudo lagers and the like. After losing my Gales yeast that I got from a bottle of HSB and discovering Fullers no longer produce the HSB in bottles I decided to culture up the Gales bottle from the jubilee haul.

I put the dregs in 100ml 1.020 wort a couple of days ago. There definately seems to be yeast. There's a persistant krausen on top (which is consistant with the HSB Gale's) and today I noticed small flecks of what I think are defiantely yeast, which weren't there when I put the dregs into the starter, so I don't thinks their LME trub. The whole thing seems a lot more vigourous than the Courage starter was at this stage.

Of course I had a taste of the 40+ year old beer. Whilst it wasn't lovely and I wouldn't have wanted to drink the whole bottle, it didn't taste horrible like the courage one did.

If both my current yeastie side projects work (this and the yeast drying), I plan on drying it once it's cultured up.

ARISE GALES YEAST FROM YOUR 40 YEAR SLUMBER!!!*



*(yeast necromancer mode )

 

[Sadfield]

A friend from homebrew club did this with a bottle of Ind Coope Jubilee Strong Ale we opened last year. After a successful culture and brew, he contacted the National Collection of Yeast Cultures (ncyc.co.uk) about it and ended up sending them some samples, which they analysed and found they didn't have it in their collection. The upshot being, as well as contributing to a great resource, he gets one free sample of it if he ever needs it again (normally £130).

 

[MyQul]

A friend from homebrew club did this with a bottle of Ind Coope Jubilee Strong Ale we opened last year. After a successful culture and brew, he contacted the National Collection of Yeast Cultures (ncyc.co.uk) about it and ended up sending them some samples, which they analysed and found they didn't have it in their collection. The upshot being, as well as contributing to a great resource, he gets one free sample of it if he ever needs it again (normally £130).

I have a bottle of inde coope too. It's definately got yeast in it as I can see it if I shine a torch underneath the bottle

 

[Sadfield]

It was very drinkable and remarkably had some condition, although obviously old.

 

[marshbrewer]

Did he give you any feedback as to the character of the yeast @Sadfield ? I've got a couple of these to reculture the yeast from.

 

[terrym]

Did he give you any feedback as to the character of the yeast @Sadfield ? I've got a couple of these to reculture the yeast from.

I had wondered if you had got round to opening your bottles.
Same goes for @dan125.

 

[marshbrewer]

Not yet, had a bit of an annus horiblus with the eldest needing open heart surgery, my Mum having a heart attack followed by a brush with skin cancer myself. We are all 100% ok now, but I haven't had much of a chance to brew or experiment, something I'm working on!

I've got a couple of bottles of Fuller's 1845 to get my technique nailed, then I will be moving into the Ind Coupe.

 

[Sadfield]

Did he give you any feedback as to the character of the yeast @Sadfield ? I've got a couple of these to reculture the yeast from.

In a way. I've tasted the beer he brewed with it, a Burton Ale IIRC. Sadly, it was that long ago I can't really offer any useful info other than it was a nice beer.

 

[dan125]

I had wondered if you had got round to opening your bottles.
Same goes for @dan125.

Not yet Terry but am planning to give it a go soon. Both bottles have been stood in the fridge since you sent them and have a good layer of sediment at the bottom.
I was thinking I could use a little wort from my next brew to get one going, but the gravity might be a bit high for a starter.

 

[matt76]

I put the dregs in 100ml 1.020 wort a couple of days ago.

Why such a small volume of wort and such a low gravity?

I kinda get the small volume I think - I guess it's about not stressing the yeast and doing several step ups, but I thought 1.035 (ish) was usually more typical?

 

[terrym]

@jjsh and @dan125
Thanks for the updates and glad to hear health issues are resolved for jjsh.
It will be interesting to hear what the Burton Centenary Ale does. Also is there any obvious sediment in the Matthew Brown Jubilee to have a go with that? I can't remember.

 

[MyQul]

Why such a small volume of wort and such a low gravity?

I kinda get the small volume I think - I guess it's about not stressing the yeast and doing several step ups, but I thought 1.035 (ish) was usually more typical?

You're exactly right, it's about waking the yeast up gently and not stressing it. Remember this is 40+ year old yeast. It's almost as old as I am.
I recently tried to culture up the Youngs strain of yeast from a bottle of Young's London special ale. I put the dregs in 200ml of 1.040 wort (i have done this a couple of times before and it does work but can risk stressing the yeast) and the result was a sulphur smelling starter, which I believe was due to the yeast being stressed rather than this being a strain that produces a lot of sulphur
I'm not sure whether 1.035 is particularly typical or not but I'm following my own bottle culturing guide which I know definately works

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...up-yeast-from-bottle-conditioned-beers.53567/

 

[MyQul]

I was thinking I could use a little wort from my next brew to get one going, but the gravity might be a bit high for a starter.
View attachment 21061

Just dilute it down

 

[foxbat]

You're exactly right, it's about waking the yeast up gently and not stressing it. Remember this is 40+ year old yeast. It's almost as old as I am.
I recently tried to culture up the Youngs strain of yeast from a bottle of Young's London special ale. I put the dregs in 200ml of 1.040 wort (i have done this a couple of times before and it does work but can risk stressing the yeast) and the result was a sulphur smelling starter, which I believe was due to the yeast being stressed rather than this being a strain that produces a lot of sulphur
I'm not sure whether 1.035 is particularly typical or not but I'm following my own bottle culturing guide which I know definately works

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...up-yeast-from-bottle-conditioned-beers.53567/

It's due to osmotic pressure which is the technical term for too much sugar in the wort when the yeast is old or potentially unhealthy. From this article there's a good quote from the founder of Wyeast Labs:

"Generally, you'd use the lower end of that range [1.020 SG, 5°P] for coming off a plate or slant or very old yeast. Yeast don't get used to a high gravity environment, and the high osmotic pressure can really stress the yeast. Don't forget, you want to increase healthy cells in a starter more than you want to increase the number of unhealthy cells."

 

[dan125]

@jjsh and @dan125
Thanks for the updates and glad to hear health issues are resolved for jjsh.
It will be interesting to hear what the Burton Centenary Ale does. Also is there any obvious sediment in the Matthew Brown Jubilee to have a go with that? I can't remember.

The Matthew Brown has even more than the Burton, but it is very easily disturbed

 

[F00b4r]

You probably are better starting off with a 50ml starter and ensuring it is autoclaved (pressure cooked), along with the equipment used. At this end you want to be looking at sterilised equipment/wort rather than just boiled.

 

[MyQul]

You probably are better starting off with a 50ml starter and ensuring it is autoclaved (pressure cooked), along with the equipment used. At this end you want to be looking at sterilised equipment/wort rather than just boiled.

I dont have a pressure cooker. The best I can manage is boiled followed by any equipment star san'ed

 

[MyQul]

It's due to osmotic pressure which is the technical term for too much sugar in the wort when the yeast is old or potentially unhealthy. From this article there's a good quote from the founder of Wyeast Labs:

This probably explains the Youngs yeast failure, whilst not very old Youngs Special London Ale is 6.4% so the OG was probably kicking it's ****

 

[MyQul]

So far so good with this. I added a second amount of 100ml/1.020 wort to the bottle I have it in, a few days ago. The amount of yeast in the bottle is now about what you get in a normal bottle of homebrew.
I put the bottle in the fridge last night to crash any yeast out of the spent wort. I'll decant the spent wort off tomorrow and add 250ml/1.040. It'll also give me a chance to taste the spent wort to see if everything is ok. It smells fine when I've been opening the bottle a crack to let out the C02 after shaking

 

[foxbat]

Nice one, easy does it. I'm a bit surprised you haven't built yourself a stir plate yet.