Fusel alcohol with possible infection?

[Pete83]

Hi

I'm just finishing up my first all grain and fear something has gone wrong. I've made a Patersbier (Greg Hughes) after getting some great tips from this forum. It's probably a week away from being ready but on inspection today it's not great to drink. Can anyone confirm my suspicions? It has a higher alcohol taste/feel than I expected and is kind of almost whiskey like in the sense it's warming but not harsh. I'm reading about Fusel alcohols and to me sounds most likely? I've tried one extract prior to this and it had the same thing. It's cleared nicely but left a strange deposit could this be an infection? Absolutely gutted I'm experiencing the same issue and not sure what the probable cause or what to do differently.

 

[Norfolk79]

What temperature did you ferment the beer at? Higher temperatures (especially towards the start of the fermentation process) can lead to the production of those fusel alcohols (I know from experience last summer one of my brews got up to 24-25 degrees)

 

[MyQul]

Looks to me like yeast in the bottom of the glass. Are you pour absolutely everything from the bottle into the glass? If you are, your pouring the sedimented yeast into your glass which is ending up on the bottom of it

 

[Pete83]

I pitched at 20c due to the weather so I couldn't get down to 16-18c but not high enough to stress the yeast surely? I had it sat at 22c as per guidance in the FF so controlled. It had a great fermentation I had to change blow off and it had a good krausen and was bubbling nicely for a good 8 days straight. As I'm new the only other thing I feel that wasn't right was the volume I managed to bottle, I only managed 18 litres and not the 23. Could it be a case of its just too strong? I'm only learning about liquoring back and 5 litre is a lot to lose.

 

[The Baron]

If you have got your volumes wrong Patersbier should be 4.7% and 5 litres less would concentrate the beer to approx 6%. now if you are not used to beers of 6% that can give you alcohol burn sensation

 

[JonBrew]

What yeast strain did you use? Trappist High Gravity?

What were you starting and final gravities?

Also, you say it was in a fermentation fridge. Is the temp probe in a thermowell or taped to the FV with insulation over it?

 

[Pete83]

I used Wyeast 3787 hight trappist. My pre boil gravity reading was 1.040 which went to 1.050 when cool and ended up at 1.009. The probe was taped to the bucket. I'm guessing the 5 litre loss has made a concentrated brew so what should I have done here? Topped up with sanitary water after the boil to make volume?

 

[MyQul]

I used Wyeast 3787 hight trappist. My pre boil gravity reading was 1.040 which went to 1.050 when cool and ended up at 1.009. The probe was taped to the bucket. I'm guessing the 5 litre loss has made a concentrated brew so what should I have done here? Topped up with sanitary water after the boil to make volume?

You can use a dilution calculator to help https://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/

The top off water doesnt need to be sanitary. I just chuck it in straight from the tap

 

[Pete83]

Having no experience with the dilution calculator have I completed this correctly on the info posted above? Would I be right in saying I need to add 1.57 litres of cold water? I'm still way off my 23 litres though.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge with beer calculators.

 

[MyQul]

Yup, you've done it correctly. So if you wanted to hit your target OG you needed to have added 1.57L of water. As for your getting 23L in the fV, you didnt probably because you didnt get as good an efficiency as the the recipe you followed assumes (I think its 72%, I'd have to check by putting the reciepe through a brewing calc - I also have the GH book)

 

[Pete83]

Thanks MyQul.

I think I've also lost more because it was a nearly 30c brew day. At the time I wasn't aware of liquoring back so just went with it.

 

[JonBrew]

You've competed the calculator fine to reach the recipe target starting gravity.

In terms of why you're short of the 23L volume, this will be to do with efficiency losses in your brewing process from start to finish, i.e. mash tun dead space, brew kettle dead space, FV trub etc. You can find out these values and factor them into your brewing software to work out your brew house efficiency and then adjust your recipes up/down to meet your desired yield. I cant recall if the recipe is for 23L of packaged beer but I suspect it would be more likely to be the volume into the FV. So even if you'd hit the target volume of 23L in the FV, you'd probably on package 21L at the most once you factor in trub loss.

In terms of the solvent flavour/aroma your detecting, it could also be caused by not pitching enough healthy yeast. How old was the smack pack and did you make a starter? The package will say that you can pitch straight into 23L of 1060 wort without a starter but that's based on 100% viability. If the smack pack was a few months old and/or shipped during the recent hot weather viability could have been low.

 

[Pete83]

Lot to think about there thanks Jonbrew. The yeast was definitely in date and was refrigerated as instructed from brew UK. I did activate it early and it probably got a little warmer than it should. I hope I've just concentrated it but I guess the only way forward is to get my local brewery to taste it for me.

Cheers.

 

[JonBrew]

That's awesome if you can get a pro brewer to taste it and offer an opinion.

Also, assuming this brew is in it's early days, a bit of age might help - I'm thinking 1.5 months or more. I've heard anecdotally that 3787 can take a bit of conditioning before some of the rougher characters mellow out and the flavours start to come together.

Above all else, don't be down beat about this. It's all part of the learning experience and joy of home brewing.

 

[Pete83]

It's still quite early I guess, really hope this can be enjoyed at some point but must remember it was my first go at all grain. The brewing process is long and definitely has a science to it. Guess all this will come in time. A positive note is it's carbed up nicely and I got the calculations right for priming after cold crashing, lovely and clear.

 

[Pete83]

Update*

I decided to take a sample bottle to Mobberley Brew house in Cheshire where a great guy called Jack kindly sampled my work. Apart from it being a little 'hot' it's worked out pretty well with no real concerns. I was told it was quite an adventurous first all grain effort! My heads up again and looking forward to my second brew soon. Cheers for help and advice from all again. :thumba:

 

[NIGHTSKY BREWING]

Time can heel a Higher %,s...........But underpitching is the biggest problem going. hope its OK.

also racking off the beer too earler from the yeast....Leave for 2days warmer after primary

 

[Pete83]

I definitely think I'll be making a yeast starter a couple of days prior to my next brew day. Reading up on under pitching is making think it's well worth the time to do this.

 

[Linalmeemow]

Give it a couple of months in the bottle and it'll probably be really nice. I can't count the number of beers that have been slightly disappointing when young only to become delicious later (usually after I've drunk 90% of the batch!).

 

[Pete83]

abigt I hope the high trappist yeast mellows out the harshness even a touch but like you say time will tell. I'll be drinking either way though with a touch of water or lemonade if needed. It's going down!