Flat It's a Trapp

[Sadfield]

0.1g/L is what Lallemand advise.

 

[MashBag]

It's a big risk, as you're emptying the bottle you're exposing the beer to air, unless you can figure out some way to rig up displacing the beer in the bottle with CO2.

I would disagree. Pour gently, and let us not forget yeast enjoy it. And we have to naturally carbonate to use the priming sugar up.?

 

[Spit]

Thanks so .05 in each bottle I'm not sure my scales are that accurate but maybe rehydrate full amount and use a syringe to prime each bottle.

 

[JockyBrewer]

let us not forget yeast enjoy it. And we have to naturally carbonate to use the primingy sugar up.?

It’s not universal. There’s a limit to how much they can take up, and they only do that under the right conditions in their life cycle.

We don’t know how much oxygen is going to be introduced, or how much the yeast can take up, so this seems very risky to me.

 

[borischarlton]

I've ordered some CBC-1 conditioning yeast just got to work out how much to put in. I'll do an experimental bottle condition for a couple of weeks at 20° and see how it goes.
Thank you all for your help it's great to know there's someone there in your hour of need.

I would be extremely careful as you will make bottle bombs. You have beer that has loads of fermentability left. then with added sugar for priming, now with fresh yeast. If you try and keg it after bottling you will have sweet oxidised beer.
My bet is that, left at room temperature for a month or so will see it fine. This is not a beer that is needed to drink fresh, give it more time.
Making bigger beers involves a few extra steps, more yeast, more nutrient, more time.....
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/belgian-strong-dark-the-jamil-show-03-26-07/id138029914?i=1000037711393

 

[Sadfield]

I would be extremely careful as you will make bottle bombs. You have beer that has loads of fermentability left. then with added sugar for priming, now with fresh yeast. If you try and keg it after bottling you will have sweet oxidised beer.
My bet is that, left at room temperature for a month or so will see it fine. This is not a beer that is needed to drink fresh, give it more time.
Making bigger beers involves a few extra steps, more yeast, more nutrient, more time.....
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/belgian-strong-dark-the-jamil-show-03-26-07/id138029914?i=1000037711393

Surely, leaving it to eventually ferment out will leave them in the same place or worse than using CBC-1? Which doesn't assimilate the more complex maltotriose that may remain, and will also kill the remaining primary yeast. That's the point of bottling yeast isn't it? Stable packaging.

Not to mention that there's been no sign of carbonation after three weeks in the high twenties. If it moves no further in the next month. Then what?

 

[Jim Brewster]

Half and half with Pepsi would be my solution.

Does the creme de menthe go in before or after the vimto?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Hi All I just cracked open a couple of bottles of It's a Trapp ag recipe from MM only to find no crack absolutely flat as flat can be. Brew digidn't quite go as expected bit low on original gravity 1090 instead of 1.105 fermented as instructed at 21 and raise to 27 fermentation finished at 1021 instead of 1015 making about Abv of about 9%instead of expected about 11% . I batch primed 18l with 130g of dextrose and left for 2 weeks at 27% then 1 week at 20%. It's been in the cool for a couple of weeks. I can only think the yeast died incidentally I used wyeast Belgian high gravity. Has anyone got any ideas how to rescue this one. Thank you in advance.

The yeast you used has a stated temperature range of 17.5C - 25.5C.

I’ve never known yeast to be killed as soon as you exceed it’s stated range but if your temperature control is also a bit off leading to an even higher temperature, and in combination with the high alcohol environment, I wonder if the viability of the yeast is your problem. This could also explain the higher finishing gravity if the yeast has given up as you ramped up the temperature.

I am guessing here though, I’ve never over-heated yeast to see how much it can tolerate!

 

[Agentgonzo]

The yeast you used has a stated temperature range of 17.5C - 25.5C.

I’ve never known yeast to be killed as soon as you exceed it’s stated range but if your temperature control is also a bit off leading to an even higher temperature, and in combination with the high alcohol environment, I wonder if the viability of the yeast is your problem. This could also explain the higher finishing gravity if the yeast has given up as you ramped up the temperature.

I am guessing here though, I’ve never over-heated yeast to see how much it can tolerate!

Yeast can happily handle temperatures in the high 30s, if not into the 40s

 

[Clarence]

Does the creme de menthe go in before or after the vimto?

At the very end. You float it on to the top of the beer by pouring gently over the back of a spoon. Gives you a nice green layer with the occasional burst of gas coming through. Reminiscence of either: a) A Mississippi swamp, b) a Pangalactic Gargleblaster. Or both, depending on how many you've already had.

 

[MashBag]

Yeast can happily handle temperatures in the high 30s, if not into the 40s

Yes some yeasts can. But 'could' does not mean 'should' , and often these extremes will produce undesirable flavours in the beverage... Hence ideal temps.

When I make grape wine, I aim for a peak of 30c and then a steady, gentle decline. This requires monitoring and if I get it right I have a point when I have to intervene to stop the fermentation overheating.

 

[Sadfield]

You've missed the point of what was being discussed. Was the yeast killed by going slightly above the recommended range?

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Yeast can happily handle temperatures in the high 30s, if not into the 40s

Agreed. When I was a student I used to put plastic fermenter in hot bath to speed it along. No concern about complications in those days <g>

 

[MashBag]

Agreed. When I was a student I used to put plastic fermenter in hot bath to speed it along. No concern about complications in those days <g>

Absolutely.

I make bread with frighteningly high water temps to get a good strike temp with the flour, and get a warm dough temp.

I also think yeasts have come along way since we started this game

 

[Agentgonzo]

Yes some yeasts can. But 'could' does not mean 'should' ,

... Yes. But the question was about whether the yeast would have been killed by the high temperature. I was saying it wouldn't be killed by what the OP had done

 

[Sadfield]

Incidentally, 27°C that the bottles were conditioned at, is the temperature that is usually cited when performing a Forced Fermentation Test to encourage full fermentation. Which suggests the yeast has given up.

 

[Spit]

That was my thinking. I wouldn't usually condition at such a high temperature but I was fermenting a sour ale which called for 27° and as I fermented the Tapp at that temperature I didn't think it would do any harm.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Do remember the environment is already toxic at 9% ABV so even though the yeast can supposedly tolerate 11%, I expect this assumes other factors are favourable. The yeast may already be on the back foot at 9% and maybe a few degrees over optimal on top of the toxic environment is enough for the yeast to throw in the towel.

Although this all sounds a little unlikely it’s still the best explanation I can think of to explain the outcome.

 

[Spit]

Do remember the environment is already toxic at 9% ABV so even though the yeast can supposedly tolerate 11%, I expect this assumes other factors are favourable. The yeast may already be on the back foot at 9% and maybe a few degrees over optimal on top of the toxic environment is enough for the yeast to throw in the towel.

Although this all sounds a little unlikely it’s still the best explanation I can think of to explain the outcome.

I like what you are saying interestingly a friend of mine did the same kit which again ended up at 9%ABV although his has good carbonation I'm not sure which yeast he used though. Like you say at these sort of levels of alcohol it can't be a good environment for life I'm not sure how long I would last soaked in 9% Belgian beer.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I'm not sure how long I would last soaked in 9% Belgian beer.

It sounds like you’re going to find out pretty soon