First time pilsner ag

[StevieDS]

Up to now I've only ever brewed English style ales but this weekend I'm gonna do a pilsner. I have my recipe and ingredients sorted but is there anything different about the brewing or fermentation process that I should be aware of? Btw its a biab. Cheers.

 

[just_steve]

I haven't done an AG yet but I've done a little bit of reading up in preparation for some in the future..

The thing that springs to my mind straight away is water profile. Pilsen's water is quite low in ions. Check this webpage from John Palmer's book How to Brew. However, maybe somebody with a bit more experience than me can shed light on whether getting the water profile right does make a major difference in making this style of beer?

 

[mattrickl06]

One thing is for sure - that Mastodon avatar is quality

 

[pittsy]

as said water is important (more so with light beers) but mostly it's do to with mashing temp , sure you can just go for 66c for 90 mins but to avoid chill haze even with modern malts i would mash in at 45c for 15mins , then add more water to get 60c for 15 mins then yet more water to get 65c and rest here for at least 45mins (up to 60 mins maybe needed until all starch has been converted to sugar) then finally raise to 75c for mash out sparge with water no hotter than 76c otherwise you risk chill haze and tannins etc. This method is ideal for english/american and canadian malts , if you use german malts then a decoction mash may be needed

 

[Dave1970]

You want soft water...following advice from this thread I ended up diluting my tapwater with reverse osmosis water from a tropical fish shop.

 

[StevieDS]

Ok so water quality is important. This could be a problem as I have no clue what the water profile is in my area (county Antrim.) I have a brita type water filter which I normally use for my beer water, will this help or hinder the quality of water? Or what about Asda smartprice water, as someone in Dave1970's thread mentioned, would this be any good?
Thanks pittsy for the mash advice too :thumb:

 

[pittsy]

I think a filter like you use is the best method , but soft water is what's better for a pils ,and using bottled water may seem good but I think you have to add salts etc

 

[Good Ed]

What's your recipe?

Also the first pilsner I did was following Aleman's advice (not the only time :thumb: ) and you cand find it here http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=32432&hilit=bohemian+pilsner (2nd post down), also as said previously your water needs to be ~30ppm CaCO3

 

[StevieDS]

It's a simple SMASH recipe I found on hopville,
20 litre batch, 4kg pilsner malt, saaz hops at 60, 15 and 1 mins, saflager 34/70 yeast.
1044 og,7 ebc, 36.4 ibu.
I'm not too worried if its not a "true" pilsner, as long as it tastes good.

 

[zgoda]

It's all about cold maturation. Keep it at just above freezing point for 6-8 weeks and it will be good pilsner. Germans say this should be 1 week for each degree Plato (1.044 is 11 Plato), Czechs are less strict.

 

[StevieDS]

When u say cold maturation for 8-10 weeks are you talking about when its bottled, ie after fermentation?

 

[pittsy]

lager means cold storage (i think) in German , you ferment with lager yeast as normal but you must use a 2nd fv , fermenting may take 3 weeks (rather than normal 2 weeks) but you need to transfer early on so 2nd fv has some c02 protecting it then before bottling you drop temp over a day or so to around 2c for approx 4 weeks then bring back up to fermentation temp for a day or 2 then batch prime to bottles etc ,priming around 150g+ for 23l . It will take longer to carb up leave around 3 weeks in warmth , then its the waiting game , more the better within reason

 

[rpt]

Ok so water quality is important. This could be a problem as I have no clue what the water profile is in my area (county Antrim.)

You should be able to get a water report from your water company's website. At least you can in England - not sure if Northern Ireland is different. I had to fill in a form on Yorkshire Water's site and then they emailed me a report. For some postcode areas it's available to download directly from the website.

 

[StevieDS]

Ok so I got the water profile for my area and the CaCO3 level is about 85mg/l but I'm not sure how that works out as ppm, anyone any ideas?

 

[StevieDS]

Actually just ignore tht last post, I realised that ppm and mg/l are the same ha! According to the water calculator I need to add 8ml of crs and 1.2g of calcium chloride. Does this sound about right to anyone?

 

[mabrungard]

Since sulfate is undesirable in a Boh Pils, I wouldn't use CRS for alkalinity neutralization. I'd use lactic acid. The 85 ppm alkalinity works out to just over 100 ppm bicarbonate concentration and you might need to neutralize almost all of that bicarb with the acid. That means you could add as much as 100 ppm lactate ion to the wort. That should be OK since the taste threshold for lactate ion in beer is around 400 ppm according to Malting and Brewing Science.

The calcium chloride addition might be warranted, but it needs to be evaluated with respect to the ionic content of the existing water. You didn't mention the existing water profile, so I can't comment on the suitability of that addition. If your water has little mineralization, then its probably OK. Read more about how to adjust your water here: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

 

[StevieDS]

Ok this is starting to get a bit daunting. I was hoping to brew this weekend but I may need a bit more time for research as I'm still new to brewing.

Basically this all boils down to one question:

If I brew the following recipe...

20 litre batch, 4kg pilsner malt, saaz hops at 60, 15 and 1 mins, saflager 34/70 yeast.
1044 og,7 ebc, 36.4 ibu.

using water which I have filtered and boiled to remove chlorine, bicarbonate and calcium, and added lactic acid as mentioned by mabrungard, then follow the mash temps and times as so...

i would mash in at 45c for 15mins , then add more water to get 60c for 15 mins then yet more water to get 65c and rest here for at least 45mins (up to 60 mins maybe needed until all starch has been converted to sugar) then finally raise to 75c for mash out sparge with water no hotter than 76c otherwise you risk chill haze and tannins etc.

then follow fermentation guide as so...

you ferment with lager yeast as normal but you must use a 2nd fv , fermenting may take 3 weeks (rather than normal 2 weeks) but you need to transfer early on so 2nd fv has some c02 protecting it then before bottling you drop temp over a day or so to around 2c for approx 4 weeks then bring back up to fermentation temp for a day or 2 then batch prime to bottles etc ,priming around 150g+ for 23l . It will take longer to carb up leave around 3 weeks in warmth , then its the waiting game , more the better within reason

will I end up with a decent, drinkable beer??

I am a bit worried about this one

:?

ps. can someone tell me what 100ppm of lactic acid is in ml?
:wha:

 

[the-erl]

Only done one lager and it was an extract, it wasn't too bad although I was unable to keep the constant low temps required. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Fermenting_Lagers is a great how to for brewing lagers.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Erl :drink:

 

[zgoda]

ps. can someone tell me what 100ppm of lactic acid is in ml?
:wha:

Don't worry about the water now, just brew it. If you insist on water modification, use 50% RO water and check pH with a strip some 15-20 mins after dough in then add lactol in a rate of 1ml at a time (then stir and check again with a strip). Repeat until you have pH of mash at 5.2-5.4. Much of this pH magic depends on malt buffering ability, which is unknown to you unless you do analyze it in a lab.

But even without this whole burden with water, if you ferment it in good conditions then keep cold for few weeks, it will be decent.

Lagers is not a mythical beast that require anything special apart of normal temperature control, wort aeration and patience. Just bit more of everything.