first all grain - liquor volumes?

[Brett]

ok so want to do first AG.

I have picked up a stainless steel boiler (free!!) but it only holds 4 gallon / 18L.
as its my first i would like to follow a recipe however most of the recipes cater for around 20-22L mark.

If I loose say 3L+/- through the process that leaves me with 15L+/- approx of brew, right?

If I take a recipe for say 20L and divide by 4 x 3, would this work out right? or does it not work like that?

What would you do?

Thanks
Brett

 

[nobyipa]

do you use anything like beer smith?
it can scale all recipes to suit your batch boiler size
that seems to be easier than doing the working out your self
whats your recipe?

 

[Brett]

That's the thing, I'm looking for a recipe.

Beer smith? let me just get my google out.

 

[Brett]

So got a trial of beersmith.

Struggling to fill out the equipment section as I've not used it yet and don't know the answers. headache.

 

[morethanworts]

Was just going to post this regarding equipment, then saw your post re Beersmith. Good luck:

I find that a 'recipe' means very little by itself, until you adapt it for the equipment and efficiencies that you have. So you're right to try to scale the recipe properly, though you will need to measure deadspaces (are you mashing in a tun or BIABing?) and the boil off rate on your gear to enter enough information into any software to get things close to the end quantity you want, along with losses to grain, hops and trub.

If you have an Android device, I have found the free app BrewR to be pretty useful for much of the scaling and tweaking, though there are some useful tools on here and Brewer's Friend too. Maybe BrewR is on other platforms too, but whatever you use, measure your deadspaces and boil some water off for a while to get a rough guesstimate for your first brew.

I'm not sure that it's a totally linear scale when scaling recipes, so it's worth getting used to some software to do the background maths for you.

 

[LeithR]

I always plan for the recipe to be a linear relationship so if you have a 23L recipe divide the amounts (grains and hops) by 23 and multiply by 18 - simples. You will end up adjusting the recipe to suit your self any way so its only a guide at best until you have got to know you kit and you have decided that you want to repeat the recipe. I've been brewing for quite a while and don't often repeat recipes as I enjoy how different they all are.

You need to account for boil off, Grain absorbtion mine works out at around 600mL/Kg and dead space. Altho I know my dead space is 1.8L I BIAB and am quite happy to lift the boiler and drain into my FV so dead space is not an issue for me. I also boil a further 8L in a smaller boiler so I can do a mini sparge once I have removed the grain in the bag and its sitting in a bucket. I don't use all of the 8L but maybe 3L over the grain. The rest I add to the boil to compensate for boiloff to bring back up to the target brew length.

 

[Fil]

yeah simples for half the beer use 1/2 the ingredients + water (dont split a yeast pack tho)

the 1st ag brew is a learning experience,

Cover the basics for cleanliness and sanitation post boil, and do your best and the beer gods will smile down on ya.
If i catalouged all the errors of my first biab brew u wouldnt have believed the grand bevvy it produced.. 1st sup raised my own eyebrow up n over me balding head with delight.

imo good beer wants to be brewed u just help it along...

 

[morethanworts]

I've read that scaling is not linear, though it may well not affect things much in such a small change. Extraction rates seem reported to get disproportionately higher as the scaling increases.

I don't fully understand the reasons, but one thing is that your boil-off will probably become greater as a proportion of the volume when you boil a smaller volume in the same vessel, which will have a non-linear relationship with hop utilisation. The thing is, you don't have any figures on your system yet anyway IIUC, so it's going to be heavy trial and error for a bit however you do it.

 

[Brett]

so bottom line I think...... just get tore in.

Cheers guys for the insight.

 

[NickW]

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=493

This was a great help to me.. I read it multiple times

 

[RobWalker]

I've read that scaling is not linear, though it may well not affect things much in such a small change. Extraction rates seem reported to get disproportionately higher as the scaling increases.

I don't fully understand the reasons, but one thing is that your boil-off will probably become greater as a proportion of the volume when you boil a smaller volume in the same vessel, which will have a non-linear relationship with hop utilisation. The thing is, you don't have any figures on your system yet anyway IIUC, so it's going to be heavy trial and error for a bit however you do it.

Boil off is somewhat consistent regardless of volume, so yeah, boil 2 gallons and you might lose a gallon, boil 6 gallons and you can lose the same, but youre losing either like 15% or 50% of your volume. Boiling 50g hops in 1 gallon gives low ibus, boiling 50g in 6 gallons will give a lot of bitterness.

By far the best thing I can recommend is just brewing an all grain recipe kit and seeing ehat comes out taking notes of figures on the way.

 

[Fil]

Im no way an accomplished brewer as some here and am still learning with each brew, but yes get stuck in


you can adapt your brewday to circumstances, should you oversparge and have too much volume after 90 mins, just boil longer till u hit the target volume and gravity..

if u under sparge, or just end up with too little volume, as long as u boil for 60 mins u should effect a hot break, 90 mins is a catch all period.. and if needed u can top up with boiled water..

Crucial tip...
have a pan with ice or cold water in it to rapid chill trial jar samples and focus on your target final gravity more than volume,, any miscalculations in volumes can be overcome next brew.. its a learning experience...
Its way better to end up with slightly less volume at target final gravity than full volume with a too low gravity..

useful tips.. if using a glass thermometer tie string round the neck and keep it hung up, they do roll off tables regardless what they say, no roll indeed! hurmph!!!

and a dipstick is an easy way to monitor boil progress towards a target volume.. clean copper tube or even your brewspoon and orings or cable ties to mark levels...


but most of all enjoy the day it will be worthwhile.. :)