first ag lager

[danb]

I've got temp control now and a big bag of saaz (huge thanks to robsan77), so I'm going to go for a lager for summer.
Now I'm not really a lager drinker so not sure what to aim for. Im not keen on the likes of fosters and Carling etc.
But like Stella and the odd corona, which I think are quite a difference in style.

I also normally go for a 23l batch but might up this to around 28l to get a bit more for the long time it takes. I only have a 33l fv as the biggest so I'm not sure what the krausen is like with lager and how much I'll get away with.
I'm hoping to use a dry yeast as I haven't started using starters and liquid yeasts etc.

Any help will be great, thanks.

 

[PD]

I've only done one lager pilsner brew, as a tester whern I got my temp fermenting fridge set up.

this one.....
http://www.thehomebrewcompany.co.uk/hbc ... -1604.html

turned out very nice and drinkable with some taste.

 

[danb]

Cheers pd I've found a fair few recipes with pilsner malt and all saaz hops. Some have flaked rice in which I have no idea about. The other bit is really yeast, temps and timings im not sure with.

 

[Good Ed]

Cheers pd I've found a fair few recipes with pilsner malt and all saaz hops. Some have flaked rice in which I have no idea about. The other bit is really yeast, temps and timings im not sure with.

Most widely available is S-23 yeast, which is not bad, ferment at 12C for 3 weeks, transfer to a second vessel, if this has a head space then transfer say 2nd week so you can get some CO2 sitting on top of the beer, then lager for 6 weeks at 1C. If you have a cool cellar, as I do, I sometimes skip lagering and store the bottles for a few months before drinking. Don't get too hung up on the process with lagers that you have to do this or that, the main thing is to pitch enough yeast and ferment cool. If you don't have the ability to lager you will still produce good beer.

 

[Dave1970]

I've done one with W34-70 if you're doing dried yeast - you need to pitch at a higher rate, I used 2 packets pitched at 12C. This one came out really well. I have another on the go now using a liquid yeast, WLP830, this time I didn't want to buy 2 vials so I made a starter. Either way you need to use more yeast than for ales.

I've been advised on here that water is important, I don't know a lot about water treatment but what it amounts to with my tapwater is that it has way too many minerals in for lager. Unless your water's soft you might want to use some soft bottled water or I got some reverse osmosis water from a tropical fish shop and diluted my tapwater with 2 parts RO water to 1 part Leicester tap. This time I did the same with the RO water and added a teaspoon of Calcium Chloride, this will hopefully bring out the malt flavours.

I know it might seem like a hassle to go into that much detail (maybe you already do already but I hadn't before lager) but I thought that if I'm going to take up my fermenting fridge for a couple of months I might as well make the extra effort to get it right!

Temps your looking to ferment at 12C and then when near FG raise to 18C for 3 or 4 days to encourage the yeast to clean up (called a diacetyl rest)

 

[danb]

Cheers chaps, I haven't got a clue about water treatment. I usually just add campden at the start.

 

[danb]

Does 34-70 or 23 produce a big krausen? I'm thinking all pilsner malt with saaz at fwh, 15 and f/o.

 

[Good Ed]

Does 34-70 or 23 produce a big krausen? I'm thinking all pilsner malt with saaz at fwh, 15 and f/o.

Not really, also you can always buy some cheap Ashbeck bottled water from Tesco's, do a search on here and Aleman has posted about it, you'd probably need to boost the calcium though. You'd be good with Saaz at those times, go for 35-40 IBU's for a Czech pilsner, 30-40 IBU's for German, and if going for your recipe above S-34/70 would be best.

 

[danb]

Will have a search mate thanks :thumb: a lot of recipes while searching are around 20 IBU. I think I'll go for 35, what size additions at 15 and f/o would you recommend.

 

[Dave1970]

Cheers chaps, I haven't got a clue about water treatment. I usually just add campden at the start.

Me neither, my other beers all get just campden, but they don't take as long as lager, or cost as much in yeast. The RO water is 10p/litre from my local fish shop so if £2.50 worth of water can make my lager better I'm up for it.

this was the original thread I asked about water in: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30998
and this is the more recent one where yeast and calcium chloride are mentioned: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=50309

 

[Good Ed]

Will have a search mate thanks :thumb: a lot of recipes while searching are around 20 IBU. I think I'll go for 35, what size additions at 15 and f/o would you recommend.

4-5 IBU's at 15 and 30g hops at O mins

 

[danb]

I might use my standard water for the first brew then I have something to use as a comparison.

 

[ericmark]

I hope yours goes better than mine. I did a Lager kit which gave instructions to make like any ordinary beer so assume Lager taste rather than true Lager so decided to get identical kit but use Lager yeast and Lager temperatures to compare. Read what John Palmer said and realised my integral garage was around the right temperature at 10 degs C so started. Only Lager yeast in local brew centre was Young's so first week nothing. Clearly too cold so used a heater and lifted to around 18 degs C and it started with warning on here it may take off I was being careful not to get too warm but no problems ran reasonably well for next week by which time ready to move into next fermentor but since expecting to take a long time and did not want to tie up large fermentor transferred into 6 demijohns yes still running but very very slow clearly made right decision with demijohns. At this rate temperature will have risen too high before it is complete will be into summer months and no fridge. Yesterday garage at 12 degs once it gets to 14 degs will move demijohns to shed which is cooler but not sure experiment will really compare methods. However if Lager which was not Lagered tastes similar to that which was Lagered then it will be last time I try for true Lager. I would guess May before I can compare.

 

[danb]

I am actually thinking of using some ro water along with mine to soften a bit. I can get a lot of values up from the water provider but no idea how to read them. If I can copy the readings some way will anybody mind having a look. Thanks

 

[danb]

http://www.stwater.co.uk/households/you ... de=ng183sp
Detailed report at bottom in PDF format. Thanks

 

[danb]

If I'm reading right chloride is 92mg/l and sulphate 47mg/l

 

[danb]

Been and got the lager malt along with a bottle of AMS. Test kit should be here in the morning too.
I was hoping to use saflager but I can't get any so going with 2 packets of mangrove jacks Bohemia lager yeast.
Any info on the yeast would be great too.
Thanks

 

[danb]

Does lager need a bit of wheat malt to help with head retention?

 

[jaroporter]

the key value you need for the water is alkalinity, but i didn't see it on there. what test kit did you order? i've had no problems with head retention with a 100% lager malt grainbill, probably 'cause it's a highly carbonated beer, i guess.

 

[danb]

Its the salifert kh test kit :thumb: